What turbo,gen1 3SGTE 180-220kW@flywheel?

[sergei]

Hi, I'm currently stuck on turbo choice...
Car is: ST165 3SGTE, ST205 W/A I/C, EBC, turbo is stock CT26 single entry steel.
I will be running ST185 ECU, and fuel pressure reg.
I got few problems with current turbo/manifold:
exhaust manifold is cracked/warped
wastegate seat is cracked, makes boost all over the place.
turbo is over 200k will give up soon.
I want it to produce "average" power but to have a very drivable torque/power curve, I'm not aming for high horsepower but I want to achive full boost at 3000-3500rpm and not to have drop off after 5000 as I have now. Don't want to run higher than 1Bar boost.
My budget is about $2000, will this be enough on a second hand rebuild/ new turbo + exhaust manifold/down pipe?
Which turbo would you suggest for my purpose?
I would preffered water cooled turbo...

[Malcolm]

ct20b
I wouldn't want to speculate on power figures at the flywheel, but I see no reason why you couldn't get 180kW @ wheels out of it at high boost + race gas, probably 170kW on 98 at around 1 bar.

All you need to do is get an st185 manifold, downpipe, and you'll need to play with your oil feed/drain slightly. And, incase you didn't know, you can get a brand new one from Warwick around the $1500 mark I believe

[sergei]

so with $1500 turbo, it leaves me with $500 for headers and down pipe... I was thinking more about tubular (not s/s) custom made manifold, but that is not in the price bracket, right?
Or, can I buy a pre-made one for ST185, will the exhaust ports/studs line up on ST165 head?

[Malcolm]

is there any particular reason you want a tubular manifold? I would suggest there isn't really any need for it, people have used the st185/sw20 manifold on some pretty high HP cars. And yes, any manifold for the st185/sw20 should fit your engine.

You can get an XS power downpipe for around $270, which is basically a copy of the Aussie exhausts one, from what I've seen.

So you should be able to do the whole thing for about $1900 if you use a stock st185 manifold, and xs power downpipe, including the cost of any changes you need to make to the oil lines

[sergei]

How different are the oil lines?
From pics I've seen the water lines are slightly different on CT20b, on st165 the water comes in from one side of the turbo and comes out from other, while on CT20b it comes in on same side as it comes out, while the front side is blocked with a plate. Is it possible to reuse ST165 water lines and remove the plate on CT20b?

[Malcolm]

the difference in oil/water lines between the ct20b (or a twin entry ct26) and what you have now, are due to the different positions of the turbo. The st165 turbo sits a little higher, due to the exhaust manifold, so with an st185 or sw20 manifold the lines wont properly match up to the turbo.

If you installed the turbo in the same position as it currently is, then you wouldn't have to modify the oil or water lines, just swap them from your turbo onto the ct20b.

In fact, there is no good reason not to use you existing exhaust manifold. The ct20b will bolt up to it, the main problem is just the twin entry vs single entry, so you could knife edge the divider on the ct20b exhaust housing to make the transition from the single to twin smoother.

You would possibly also have to clock the compressor housing if you did this. It's not difficult but the problem is that you'll have to make up a bracket to hold the wastegate actuator properly, otherwise it might not function correctly. That's not a big deal, but could be a pain.

You may also have to clock the exhaust housing - but that is easy

[sergei]

why I don't want to use current manifold:
1)it is cracked
2)the turbo sits too high, thus I had to cut a hole in the bonnet to make ST205 i/c fit
3) not twin entry
4)possibly warped

I had to turn the compressor housing anyway (to fit properly ST205 i/c), so waste gate actuator is sitting in new position.

The oil feed on ST165 is quiet flexible, the return is easy to modify (cut and use a bit of hose).
I think it will not be a major to sort the water lines...

Now where I can source the down pipe?

[Malcolm]

I got mine from Driven Performance, but AFAIK there are a large number of companies that sell XS power stuff, you can also go somewhere like Aussie exhausts, but you're looking at about $550 delivered then and it's not necessarily any better than the xs power one.

[strx7]

if you want good throttle responce and a broader power band then a tubular manifold with longer close to equal length runners is what you'd be better off with. Yes some cars make good power on std manifolds but the way they deliver the power isn't the greatest. Longer manifold runners means more even pressure onto the turbine. Dont be fooled into thinking that a turbo works better closer to the exhuast port because withint reason its actually the opposite which is true.

[Malcolm]

ask Al what throttle response is like with t-vis, a ceramic ct20b and a stock manifold, then double the goodness for the shorter and straighter gt-four intercooler piping tract

[Al]

Throttle response is f$%king awesome, with the ceramic ct20b it was so damn driveable, boost from 1700rpm, full boost at 3200rpm.

[vvega]

fitting a ct20b to a 165 with the late model manifold is a c**t
tou have to modd th wastegate to fit
change over the water feeds
bend few brakets and change teh oil dump pipe

you also have to grind half of the water/oil cooler nut off or it wont even bolt up
so basically any standred issue tubular manifold will have the same issues

the oil feed can be manipulated into place
as long as you use teh 165 oil feed pipes on the turbo

you need teh 20b down pipe


i cant remeber quite everthing i had to do but it did take about a day of $&#$% around with access to the proper tools

v

[sergei]

how extensive is the grinding? can I grind turbo housing instead?

[vvega]

its the wastegate pivot arm the it interferes with so there is not a alturnative in this cause
unless you make some sort of adapter block for the flange but that will come with its own set of cunty issues

it can be done but its not a direct boltup

v

[sergei]

I guess it is similar hassle as installing 205 I/C...no problem

[vvega]

dunno havent done that yet

v

[sergei]

well to install ST205 i/c on ST165 gear (turbo/manifold) I had to:
Rotate turbo 45 degrees, slot the wastegate actuator bracket, get a new 90 degree silicone joint, cut 2 cm off inlet on I/C, make up a bracket to hold iI/C in place, buy 2.75 inch straight piece of silicone joint (to connect the I/C outlet), press in 2.5 inch pipe in the original rubber throttle body adapter (so it will not squish when clamps are tighten), reroute water hoses, add a BOV, cut a big hole in the bonnet (I/C sits too high).

[vvega]

lol and now youll have to undo it all because the turbo sits diffently again

i have a subaru one in mine mounted over by the coil
that was fun

oh and i have a mr2 ecu

v

[Malcolm]

I've thought of an easy way for you guys to achieve your ambitions with a lot less hassle.

Get an st205, remove body panels, attach all the st165 panels. Sorted.

[vvega]

lol i wouldnt own one if you gave it to me

id take all teh running gear though

v