Touchy Subject but, The AE86 Status

[crnkin]

so hard to sit back and watch a whole lot of noobs argue, so ill put in my 3 cents.

ive never watched initial D. Ive never drifted a car properly. Ive never owned, been in, driven or SEEN an ae86 in real life. I dont have the money to buy an ae86 even if they were 2g.

But I still have wet dreams over them.

If you have never driven, or owned a genuine ae86, the shut the god damned fluck up. Like karl, matt an others, im over it.

GOD

IDIOT

[samlloyd]

[TRD Man]

Very nice Smithers! Do you have any idea how many of those I destroyed in my younger (pre Toyota) days?

AE86 a classic? Of course it is. It's a hugely historically significant car for both Toyota & motorsport.
Designed from the outset as an off the shelf rally capable car, it's probably the only production car ever to be so.

The problem is that if you're not really into them, they seem just a little boring.
I've owned several as car yard stock. Yet I've never felt the urge to own one personally, to rally one or even to drive one home.

Perhaps collectable is a better word for them.

[Mr Revhead]

Just to talk about this, why do you feel a Japanesse car cant be a classic?? Im curisos to know..... Is it becasue they are far more advanced than that of Britsh and euro cars.......

nope, not at all

i just feel they have no character.... hard to explain.... just no passion in them.....
as i said subjective.. doesnt have to be logical.

now that escort above is very nice!
maybe a classic if its the right model.....
a bda or twincam is a classic.... but a 1100 with bubble archs isnt..... as cool as it is....

[Dell'Orto]

Designed from the outset as an off the shelf rally capable car, it's probably the only production car ever to be so.

RS-RA, WRX-RA, Evolution RS, GT-ae are all models that spring to mind

I'd be more inclined to call it a cult classic rather than an out and out classic...classic cars are appreciated by most people, rather than die hard fanatics.

[TRD Man]

The difference with those models MmmBoost is that they are all derivatives of non turbo, non 4WD shopping trolleys that had no motorsport intent in their design.
You could say the same about RS Escorts and HSR Chevettes. But once again they were road cars, designed purely and simply as road cars, that were reconfigured for rally use.
However 80 series Corolla's were FWD. I recall reading at the time that the whole rationale behind the RWD AE86 version was to produce a rally capable vehicle and incorporate features - i.e. longer suspension travel, more suitable geometry, satisfactory weight - into the design from the outset.
This was reputedly a first. Whether other models have done so since, who knows?

[Di]

However 80 series Corolla's were FWD. I recall reading at the time that the whole rationale behind the RWD AE86 version was to produce a rally capable vehicle and incorporate features - i.e. longer suspension travel, more suitable geometry, satisfactory weight - into the design from the outset.
This was reputedly a first. Whether other models have done so since, who knows?

I remember I've read some AE86 history on Japanese web site when TOYOTA was designing the AE86 in early 80's they set 3 goals: first is get the fastest lap time on Japan famous Tsukuba circuit, second is dominate Japan rally championship, third is 200km/h speed challenage. The AE86 achived every single one of them perfectly. In fact it dominated most rally events in US, AUS/NZ after it hit their market.

[AE85coupe]

*shakes head*

Notice how the ones talking these cars up, are those who have owned/own/want to own one.. their mindset alone of which is the sole reason these rusty shitters are still alive and grossly overpriced.

I would have thought anyone who owned one, or hell even driven one, is actually quailified to comment on them

thrash mine round some corners at high revs with the intake noise roaring, i garantee you will like it

[AE85coupe]

while you sit there arguing. ill play with my ma61 which in my opinion is fair superior to the ae86 and much cheaper

i don't mind ma61 i'm sure they are a great car, but compared to an AE86 they are a whale, or a boat, or both

[deaf_rattle]

i wouldnt call them a whale. while they handle like shit thats only because they have 20 plus year old shocks in them.
same with worn out shocks in the ae86, same results.

i think irs is abit more advanced than solid rear axle.

if ae86s werent so expensive and were priced at the $3500 mark they would be a very good car. however when i can pick up a MA61 for $800 that would be in the same condition as a $4000 ae86 i know what id choose.

each to their own at the end of the day.
I would have to agree with the comment of cult classic tho.

[~SlideWays~]

Drool....

[RS13]

Can I just say, this forum is so much more enjoyable when we're having a decent, intelligent debate..

Aaaaanyway..

The AE86 was only in production from 1983? to 1987? How many years were Toyota in motorsport before this? How many other model Toyotas were raced? 20? 30? 40? As I said before, its' only a select few who talk these cars up, and make them what they are!

You'll also notice, part of the reason they're so sickeningly popular, is that if you wanted a drifter outside of the Nissan stable, the AE86 was the only race-bred, proven choice, other than the RX7.. and we know how most people feel about rotaries!

IMO, the KP60 is more of a classic than an AE86, and thats' what this whole shitstorm boils down to, personal preference, and others' opinions, hence why this whole debate is just going round and round..

[~SlideWays~]

IMO, the KP60 is more of a classic than an AE86, and thats' what this whole shitstorm boils down to, personal preference, and others' opinions, hence why this whole debate is just going round and round..

How is it more of a classic? (genuine question). I guess the reason I'm asking is because most classics have been responsible for some sort or milestone. ie:

- motorsport (enter car here)
- styling (e type, countach)
- first FF west east mass produced car (was it the mini?)
- supercars...for being obscene
- or even being a lemon.

Why do you consider the kp to be a classic?

[RS13]

The KP60 variants have done everything that the AE86 has, and more, for almost twice as long.

They covered everything with the KP60! I'd say tens of thousands of people learnt the fundamentals of RWD handling by having one as a first car, as well as the fact they're still being thrown sideways through rally tracks and thrashed around circuits worldwide.. add to that, you can just about throw ANY motor in them, and they're still just as fun and practical.. and you can still pick a legit one up for $500 on a good day.

Summing up, they're still in almost every form of motorsport, from rally to demo derbies.. and thats what makes them so great.

[~SlideWays~]

The KP60 variants have done everything that the AE86 has, and more, for almost twice as long.

They covered everything with the KP60! I'd say tens of thousands of people learnt the fundamentals of RWD handling by having one as a first car, as well as the fact they're still being thrown sideways through rally tracks and thrashed around circuits worldwide.. add to that, you can just about throw ANY motor in them, and they're still just as fun and practical.. and you can still pick a legit one up for $500 on a good day.

Summing up, they're still in almost every form of motorsport, from rally to demo derbies.. and thats what makes them so great.

Sold.

haha

Yeah but can you say they were a classic in that respect if you had to put a different engine in it?

I've had a kp sprint and it was ok but you'd have to change everything (engine, axle, brakes, seats, etc) for it to compete in mostly any motorsport unless it was a low spec rally car or in an engine class (where you'd still have to do something with those tiny brakes).

Don't get me wrong they are brilliant once all the work is done, for example my brothers kp61 is faster than my ae86 (not now that a dirty honda rear ended it though!)

But any car could be competent in motorsport if you change enough. But they do have the rwd format and weight going for them. My point is that a 'bastardised' kp isn't the same thing (a classic). std kp vs bog std ae86 is very different AND ae86's used to be cheap.

Damn but there goes that 'opinion' thing. You just wait...the govt will sort that one out.

[AE85coupe]

question for mr RS13

have you driven an AE86?

[varix]

The day i own one, will be the day my life is complete

So totally true.

[wde_bdy]

But any car could be competent in motorsport if you change enough. But they do have the rwd format and weight going for them. My point is that a 'bastardised' kp isn't the same thing (a classic). std kp vs bog std ae86 is very different AND ae86's used to be cheap.

You may not know this, but the KP61 had its own race series in America and a very extensive list of parts supplied by Toyota. Using the K series motor they can be very successful in a lot of different motorsport.
And just to stir the pot, here's a quote regarding a race meeting down Canterbury recently -

The guy who asked what was under the hood was the guy in the orange TE71 (I think) turbo 4age powered. I was all over him like a rash in the 2nd race and almost rear ended him many times, even had to get on the brakes mid corner more times than I could count gggggggrrrrrrr - could pull up beside him on exit but the 330hp kind of pulls away alittle in a straight line, but not that much because I was right on his bumper again under brakes into turn 1. I think he was slightly embarrassed when I told him I was packing 1290cc of n/a power

No point saying its not a classic because you have to mod the motor to do any good, i don't think the AE86 ran 100% standard in too many classes.
Once you start talking race history though quite a few other cars pop into the picture, TE27, KE15, TE37, Celica's etc. The AE86 is really just a tweaked TE71 with a newer technology motor.

Callum

PS - This is not to say I don't like the AE86, just that I don't believe they are a classic yet. May well be a potential future classic though.

[macabre]

cars like that are gonna only get more sought after theres only so many light rwd cars left in the country/world because they dont make them very often anymore... probably gonna get worse as fuel prices keep skyrocketing, soon it wont be economic to make any kind of sporting vehicle aprat from supercars because only the very rich will be able to run them.

Do you realise how silly that sounds?

You're saying, that due to increased fuel prices, companies are going to stop making light weight sporty cars, with relatively economical small displacement engines?

If I'd be worried about anything becoming extinct, it's V10 luxobarge behemoths.

Even though there's a tendency for 'sporty' cars to be FWD, I think that as the sports car market becomes more concerned about fuel prices etc, sports cars will probably become MORE like how the AE86 was.

that was one half of my post, and yes thats exactly what im saying. lets see how many "sporty" cars get sold when fuel gets to $ 3.80 - $4 a litre, remember that the majority of car buyers arent like you and me and car companys are not gonna make cars that only a small percent of thier customers want are they, and they dont really make that many small rwd cars anymore so stfu.

[~SlideWays~]

But any car could be competent in motorsport if you change enough. But they do have the rwd format and weight going for them. My point is that a 'bastardised' kp isn't the same thing (a classic). std kp vs bog std ae86 is very different AND ae86's used to be cheap.

You may not know this, but the KP61 had its own race series in America and a very extensive list of parts supplied by Toyota. Using the K series motor they can be very successful in a lot of different motorsport.
And just to stir the pot, here's a quote regarding a race meeting down Canterbury recently -

The guy who asked what was under the hood was the guy in the orange TE71 (I think) turbo 4age powered. I was all over him like a rash in the 2nd race and almost rear ended him many times, even had to get on the brakes mid corner more times than I could count gggggggrrrrrrr - could pull up beside him on exit but the 330hp kind of pulls away alittle in a straight line, but not that much because I was right on his bumper again under brakes into turn 1. I think he was slightly embarrassed when I told him I was packing 1290cc of n/a power

No point saying its not a classic because you have to mod the motor to do any good, i don't think the AE86 ran 100% standard in too many classes.
Once you start talking race history though quite a few other cars pop into the picture, TE27, KE15, TE37, Celica's etc. The AE86 is really just a tweaked TE71 with a newer technology motor.

Callum

PS - This is not to say I don't like the AE86, just that I don't believe they are a classic yet. May well be a potential future classic though.

Thats the sort of thing I'd love to see. One of the most memorable things I've seen at manfeild was years ago when a cheque book racer with a wrx (serious thing) was head to head with a full on capri race car (dont have any info on the car but it looked to be fibreglass and a serious v8). Both screaming down the back straight, the sort of 'new vs old' that would send a tingle down your spin. Soon after, the wrx had to pull off with a mechanical failure. This was probably about the mid to late 90's so the wrx was very new and expensive too.

wtf...But thats not the point...little side tracked there....

I have seen some quick kp's still running the k series engine. Granted they can make enough power to pull the lil body shell, but what about the brakes and all?

My brother has (kp61) had to do put bigger front disc's and calipers, 1800 sohc turbo with vf10 tapped to 12psi, water to air ic, ae86 (lol) rear axle, pretty much stripped interior (bare essentials)... and he was only now quicker than my ae86 with 4agze on 10psi with std brakes and some nothing special shocks and springs...but find some corners and it was all over.

Now he had (before c**t kid rear ended it) upgraded koni adjustable shocks and some better uprated springs. This no doubt would mean the corners are not going to be on my side anymore.

I'm now running a 4agte fwd which will be something to compete with him on the track. Will be interesting...just got to wait for him to reshell his.

That rant was basically to say that kp's are cool but have to be modified a lot just to bring them up to similar spec.

All IMO!

NB: still have s/c 86 but like it as it is so no turbo for that. yet.