Touchy Subject but, The AE86 Status

[bluemaumau]

Again comes down to your definition of "better". I know from an engineering point of view I'd much rather have something japanese than german in my engine bay. At least it would keep going then

seconded, why do europeans cost more anyway? i think they have better interiors but thats it.

the only european cars that actually outdo thier japanese competitors performance wise probley cost 5 times more!!!

[vvega]

t.

um gt4 was designed purly as a rally car
liek the ae-86
infact i do belive it has had more success in rallying at the top levels
and no you cant say it comes from a fwd because bar the outside bodyshap they really share nothing

not only that but the celica's hertage is rwd

its just a car at the end of the day
in y eyes it will never be a classic because at the end of teh day its just a massed produced car

to me a classic car is
a gulwing merc
a 308gt ??
shelby cobra
930 turbo

can you honestly put a ae-86 amonst these
these cars set the standerds of there era i cannot say the ae-86 did this

its just a cheap mass manufactured sports car
wether its good or not dosent matter

go down the road and ask random people what a 911 porshe is
now do the same for the ae-86

its just not reconised by teh masses as a classic
IMO a classic stands out in a crowd of cars
teh ae-86 just blends in with all the millons of other mass made cars

v

[sergei]

good example is:
Most of Japanese petrol cars (if not all) are of twin cam (DOHC) multi valve, while majority of euro's aren't - lots of VW are actually SOHC 2v per cyl with non-crosflow design, some BMW are as well SOHC 2v per cyl, most of the French cars are of the same ancient design. Bloody cheapest Nissan Sunny comes with twin cam 16 valve engine!.
Have you driven 318 series BMW? They are just plain gutless, I would say similar performance to 1.3 starlet.. I'm not even starting on reliability here.
Of course I'm talking about second hand 5-10yo vehicle (that is what we have at work).

[vvega]

Again comes down to your definition of "better". I know from an engineering point of view I'd much rather have something japanese than german in my engine bay. At least it would keep going then

seconded, why do europeans cost more anyway? i think they have better interiors but thats it.

the only european cars that actually outdo thier japanese competitors performance wise probley cost 5 times more!!!

i didnt think it was that hard to understand to be honest
preformance costs expodentially

most people that dont spreciate germin cars have never drivin one
tell you what
go drive a BMW m3
or a gt3
then come back and tell me there crap

i thibk aome of you guys need a reality check

i drive a toyota simply because i cant afford a better car
if i had the money i would dump the lot and go buy a m5

toyota make good value cars
but in the big picture thast all they are cheap shittas

i mean comon why do you think im putting a v8 in a aw11
i cant afford a real mid engined sports car
so im building one

somthing toyota never did

[Lloyd]

Whats wrong with SOHC?

[vvega]

good example is:
Most of Japanese petrol cars (if not all) are of twin cam (DOHC) multi valve, while majority of euro's aren't - lots of VW are actually SOHC 2v per cyl with non-crosflow design, some BMW are as well SOHC 2v per cyl, most of the French cars are of the same ancient design. Bloody cheapest Nissan Sunny comes with twin cam 16 valve engine!.
Have you driven 318 series BMW? They are just plain gutless, I would say similar performance to 1.3 starlet.. I'm not even starting on reliability here.
Of course I'm talking about second hand 5-10yo vehicle (that is what we have at work).

they may be gutless but they will outhandle most japanese shittas stock for stock

[ollieboy]

I have to agree with vvega. I love porsches, I get to drive my bosses every so often and they are nice as. I would love one but I can't afford one, well a 944 but thats not the same.

[Si]

toyota make good value cars
but in the big picture thast all they are cheap shittas

in corollas and camrys yes, but the lexus's still mix it up with the euros easy.

[Snoozin]

good example is:
Most of Japanese petrol cars (if not all) are of twin cam (DOHC) multi valve, while majority of euro's aren't - lots of VW are actually SOHC 2v per cyl with non-crosflow design, some BMW are as well SOHC 2v per cyl, most of the French cars are of the same ancient design. Bloody cheapest Nissan Sunny comes with twin cam 16 valve engine!.
Have you driven 318 series BMW? They are just plain gutless, I would say similar performance to 1.3 starlet.. I'm not even starting on reliability here.
Of course I'm talking about second hand 5-10yo vehicle (that is what we have at work).

they may be gutless but they will outhandle most japanese shittas stock for stock

Bah any more than 8 valves is dead weight anyway....

[sergei]

good example is:
Most of Japanese petrol cars (if not all) are of twin cam (DOHC) multi valve, while majority of euro's aren't - lots of VW are actually SOHC 2v per cyl with non-crosflow design, some BMW are as well SOHC 2v per cyl, most of the French cars are of the same ancient design. Bloody cheapest Nissan Sunny comes with twin cam 16 valve engine!.
Have you driven 318 series BMW? They are just plain gutless, I would say similar performance to 1.3 starlet.. I'm not even starting on reliability here.
Of course I'm talking about second hand 5-10yo vehicle (that is what we have at work).

they may be gutless but they will outhandle most japanese shittas stock for stock

well maybe if they did not had crapped out suspension, like they are imported from japan. European don't last.

[Lloyd]

Thats the thing, we're talking cheap Japanese stuff here. M3 is a bit of a different league. If we're talking the cheaper stuff then you'd probably be comparing 318 and 520s which all seem slow as hell. If you want to go up to the M3 price bracket then there are a fair few more Japanese vehicles that would be up there for competition

Not that I've ever driven an M3, would love the chance. Doubt I would even actually buy one and would hate the idea of ever having to actually work on one.

[frost]

vvega wrote;
"these cars set the standerds of there era i cannot say the ae-86 did this"
"its just a cheap mass manufactured sports car"


thats Exactly whats the ae86 did! they where a mass produced sporty car that most ppl could afford, they where the first 16valve mass produced engined car that as available to the public. and yes ae86 was the first car to have the 4age, yes the cosworth 16valve was almost the same engine(in design) but could anyone get ahold of one? NO.

in its day the 4ag power'd ae86 was setting records not just on the track but on fuel economy, who the hell has herd of a fuel economy sports that was reliable back in the 80's well not the yanks or britts or germins.

sometimes i wish i didnt buy so many ae85/86 because yes they are rusty sh!t buckets that need cancer cut out of them at high cost. but if i never have driven one i'd never have known what driving really is. i love them and i dont care what anybody says about me owning a 20+ yeah old toy.

[vvega]

Thats the thing, we're talking cheap Japanese stuff here. M3 is a bit of a different league. If we're talking the cheaper stuff then you'd probably be comparing 318 and 520s which all seem slow as hell. If you want to go up to the M3 price bracket then there are a fair few more Japanese vehicles that would be up there for competition

Not that I've ever driven an M3, would love the chance. Doubt I would even actually buy one and would hate the idea of ever having to actually work on one.

there is nothing that the japs make n the same class as a m3
as far as im aware its a factory supercar and can be used happly as a daily driver

and as for cheaper

compare it to a 540i then
there hardly worth moonbeams or 735

[TRD Man]

um gt4 was designed purly as a rally car
liek the ae-86

There may well be juistification for calling that a classic car too.
That's the point. It's not an exclusive club.

and no you cant say it comes from a fwd because bar the outside bodyshap they really share nothing

Not sure I'd agree with that. The ST160 came before the ST165. They're essentially the same body, the same interior, the same suspension pick ups, in fact the same suspension apart from a few subtle changes to accomodate the 4WD. The engine and trans are essentially the same barring the turbo & the 4WD transfer box & rear diff.
In reality there's probably more that's the same than is different which would make you believe that the GT4 is a derivative of the 2WD version.

in y eyes it will never be a classic because at the end of teh day its just a massed produced car

to me a classic car is
a gulwing merc
a 308gt ??
shelby cobra
930 turbo

can you honestly put a ae-86 amonst these

Are you suggesting that a Mini or a VW Beetle is not a classic car?

wether its good or not dosent matter

That's absolutely correct. It also doesn't matter whether it has leather or vinyl, Smiths gauges or Denso, 2 doors or 4.
It doesn't matter what the masses think, or for that matter, what you & I think. It's not a popularity contest.

[JamesM]

ae86 is a sweet car total driving experience.
waste of bloody money tho.
spent far to much money on mine but id have it over any other rice rocket. cant comment on the euros having never owned/driven one.
M3 GTR with carbon roof would be sweet.

[vvega]

sory there but the celica started life RWD
the st162 is halfway along the bloodline

i also belive that teh st160 and 165 came out around teh same time
earliest st160 ive seen is 1986
and the earliest 165 ive seen is also 86

subltle
what do you call subtle ??
the fact that the entire undercarage is diffent ??
hmm what else
diffent front guards
differnt lentgh lower arms
different fuel tank
they woudl have practically redesined teh whole car to do what they did


all that still dosent make it a classic

as for the mini and the vw ??
yes tehre classic there milstones in automotive history
teh vw allowed cars for teh masses
as did teh mini

im sorry btu if you trint to make teh point that teh ae-86 still compares

well

BTW
it is what the masses think
one man or in this case a small cult group cannot call a car a classic
i mean ffs

teh vw has world renow
teh mini has world renow
all teh cars i mentioned before have been hailed buy the press and critics as classics

i have yet to hear anyone beside toyota enthosests call the ae-86 anything beside a overpriced shitta

what dose it aclaim ???
it has a good motor........noting groundbrking there (after all teh aw11 got it first)
i has a lightwight bidy..... so what heaps or cars do
its got good balance...again nothign really exciting

there really nothing specail about the ae-86 friom a engineering pont of view
so please tell me
aside from winning a few races what makes teh ae-86 so specail as to deam it a classic ??

v


v

[Dell'Orto]

Geez Wayne, slow down when you type eh

As for Japanese supercars, the FD3S, JZA80 and BNR32 kinda compare fairly well to the M3. Featurewise, Century's, Cimas and the like also hold their own against the M5's.

[scotts2hot]

vvega has covered pretty much everything I wanted to say. I honestly can't understand people saying that their dream car is a an ae-86.. it's a corolla! Have something to aspire to guys!

I have to agree with vvega. I love porsches, I get to drive my bosses every so often and they are nice as. I would love one but I can't afford one, well a 944 but thats not the same.

I've got a 944 and it's a very good car! It's no rocket ship in a straight line but it handles beautifully, infact it would be a good car to compare to the ae-86 in the sense that it's 50:50 weight balance, reasonably light weight, around the same age and price.

Although..

I'd bet that it's faster round a track, it is hundreds of time better looking, a lot classier, it has better racing heritage and it's made by the best manufacturer in the world (I'm biased!) It's also reliable and I have no hassle at all getting spares if I need them. Only trouble I had was getting some nice wheels for it.

Why would you choose an ae-86 again?

[vvega]

hhaha yeh i know its shocking
lol a jz80 to a m3 is like a mini to a 911

i think you need to drive a m3 to really apreciate why

and as far as a centry
id take a pepsi chalange with that against a e55 amg

or did you forget about that family car

perhaps we could look to a bently turbo R

sorry man but teh japs have a long way to go

v

[Zitchu]

Comparin the japs and euros is kinda hard coz you gotta remember that the japs have the factory power limit where as the euros dont and you definitly pay more for the euros.

The AE86 in its day was definitly a good car and cost effective but duno if its classic material......