NA power coming - Not really

[BZR4AGE]

I decided to start a new topic instead of using my old one.
Anyway. for those of you who remember. I had my blacktop fitted with all TODA goodies...and today I got the result...and to be honest - quite dissappointed.

First I will list my gear
TODA 272 degrees intake camshaft 9mm lift
TODA 264 degrees exhaust camshaft 9mm lift
TODA hi-comp forged piston. 82mm bore 11.8 compression
TODA adjustable cam gears at both ex and in
TRD 0.8mm headgasket
TODA uprated valve springs
TODA flywheel
Silvertop rods shot peened.
Crank and block and head all machined and crack tested
Greddy E-manage Ultimate

and the result - i rather not state it because it is quite bad but a rough idea on the Kw at the wheel is approx the same as a good condition blacktop.

The workshop guys told me that it is not at its full potential yet
and I have 2 major problems that is stopping me getting more KW.

Problem 1) My HKS filter is so badly designed that it is sitting in front of the radiator fan. which means, I am constantly getting HOT air blown into my intake. They told me when they were dyno tuning it, the intake temp was approx 50 degrees C even at idle, he said that because the temp sensor is close to the intake, therefore the STOCK ECU will somehow restrict the engine. He suggested I should get a cold air box or something to stop the heat.

Problem 2) my exhaust is buggered. Its making a really foul smell - he suggested that it is because the catalyst converter is stuff and that it is actually blocking the exhaust flow (hence the bad smell). He suggested I should get the cat removed.

He believes that if these two problems are fixed I would have significantly more KW at the wheel.

My question is. will these two problem really affect the performance of the car so much even with the TODA goodies in it?

What are some other suggestions? I have a HKS FPR, but didn't install it, because they think it was not needed. Is fuel ab issue??

Someone expert please help me....spend so much on it, was expecting something more than that....really "de-motivated" me in making my car an all rounder.

Cheers Guys

[Adamal]

If your exhaust is pretty blocked, then yea, its gonna make a difference, because the engine will be soaking up quite a bit of power trying to push the gasses out. That and the extractors won't be scavanging as well as they could be.

And thats a really high intake temp. Either get some ducting and a heat sheild, or go back to the stock intake system. With that compression ratio, it'd lead to some pretty bad detonation. The ECU is probably retarding the timing a bit, knocking off a bit of power.

Have you noticed a difference in power over what you had?

[CozmoNz]

engines need to be able to breath!

pushing in hot air is no good, and blocking the exhaust is no good either!

id say get a new exhaust system, (depends if yours is stock size or what), cai, and change the ecu with those cams, JEEZE!

[NZ_AE86]

What fuel are you using?
Avgas or don't bother!

[BZR4AGE]

The ECU has been changed to a piggyback Greddy E-manage Ultimate
as for exhaust, is 2.5inch HKS cat back, the the problem as mentioned by the workshop is the Catalyst converter being blocked.

The workshop wasn't able to tune the E-manage probably because of the high temp stuffing up everything.

When I got the car back. it definately felt a lot smoother and better at the top end. Sometimes i didn't even realise i was over 100km/h as the car speeds up so quickly, and the response is quite good.

With the cams i needed to take out VVT, but even without the VVT, after 4000 rev it felt like VVT was on. So i was actualy surpise witht he figure from the dyno.... because it surely felt very good! and i don't doubt the workmenship of the guys putting the stuff in, because I was with them almost every step of the way rebuilding the engine, and I must say their work is very precise and clean (but I am no expert so i guess i can't say that)

As for running in the engine, I follow every step the guys at the workshop said and also from advice of the forum...giving it lots of pressure but not over doing it and bot labouring it.

[BZR4AGE]

What fuel are you using?
Avgas or don't bother!

I am using BP ultimate 98 octane ALWAYS

[fxgt race]

yes change the exhaust,we tryed to dyno my engine with a standard exhaust and it was crap,may need to get someone to flow test your fuel pump if you haven't put a new one in,my one was well under what it should have been and was replaced with a 3ltr a minute pump.

[Dell'Orto]

Yep, inhaling hot air and not being able to push out exhaust will make a massive difference.
You've obviously spent a bit on the motor, so you really ought to have spent the minimal dollars more and done the basics right

[BZR4AGE]

you are right boost.
I will get those done. but.....just need to start saving again as i used up most of it already. If i leave those 2 till the end of the year. will it damage the engine in anyway?? or is it best get it done while the motor is fresh?

Cheers
You guys sort of motivated me to start spending again...which is a good thing. i guess i shouldn't give up now

[Dell'Orto]

A cold airbox shouldnt cost much, especially if you've got access to tools. All it entails is making a partition.
As for the exhaust, get any exhaust shop to make you a test pipe to replace the cat, shouldnt cost much at all.

[4000GT]

The intake temp wont make a MASSIVE difference (sounds like you are looking for 40-50WHP over what you have based on your mods and making stock power). I would be surprised if they didnt take the filter off if it was so bad or have a fan running towards the filter to blow cold air in. Also, did they measure the back pressure in the exhaust system. I am not sure how else they could tell you your cat is "blocked". It costs about $40 to get it cut out and pipe welded in, add $80 ish if you want a resonator in place.

Look further into the tune. Did they spend much time dialing in the cams? This can have a significant effect especially with a highly modded motor.

[ezy10s]

Mmmmmm 87kw?

[flygt4]

did you dyno it before the mods on the same dyno? as there can be a significant difference between different dynos.
what you are really after is the improvement , as the power figure really means sweet F all. its just for wank value really you could probly go shopping around different dynos and eventually find one that would read higher

also you must have done a full build of the engine to get most of that gear in ,they usually take a bit of time to achieve their maximum potential when they are fresh.

[BZR4AGE]

The intake temp wont make a MASSIVE difference (sounds like you are looking for 40-50WHP over what you have based on your mods and making stock power).

I am not stupid and wern't expecting 40WHP from stock. I've seen good condition stock Blacktop make 95KW at the wheel with exhaust and intake, and let just say i am somewhere around that atm with all my TODA stuff.

I am realistic and I was expecting about 110KW at the wheel.

As for dyno tuning, A fan was use, but because the radiator fan was like only 10cm away from the filter, it was blowing more hot air than cold air into the intake. and because witht he E-manage, u can see the intake temp, and it did say 50 degrees.

Hell with it, i will just give my figures now.
2 years ago, i did a dyno run on Beyond motorworks. At tht time I had exhaust system, filter and a BLITZ access ECU, tht made 98.7 KW.

Now before the engine was rebuilt with same exhaust and intake but stock ECU, it dropped back down to 87KW, so it was in pretty bad condition. (this was done at velocity dyno at shores)

After the full engine rebuilt and with all the TODA gear stuck in it, with the same exhaust and intake from 2 years ago. it made 100KW (this was done at velocity dyno at shores)

[NZ_AE86]

You need to remember that the 'big' No. means nothing at the end of the day.

[BZR4AGE]

You need to remember that the 'big' No. means nothing at the end of the day.

i see your point there, but i mean it just seems a bit weird with not much increase. I mean ppl in toyspeed with similar setup make around 110kw atw with similar setup. e.g. fxgt race.

so i just don't understand why i am not achieveing these numbers. I am not after BIG numbers, but 'reasonable' is the word i will use.

so there must be something i am doing wrong or not done. thats wht i am trying to figure out with this topic.

[Mr Revhead]

so its some where around 12:1 compression.....

thats avgas territory there.

with that much gone into it id be expecting like 180hp at the fly.

btw HKS filters are CRAP. get rid of it.

[4000GT]

The intake temp wont make a MASSIVE difference (sounds like you are looking for 40-50WHP over what you have based on your mods and making stock power).

I am not stupid and wern't expecting 40WHP from stock. I've seen good condition stock Blacktop make 95KW at the wheel with exhaust and intake, and let just say i am somewhere around that atm with all my TODA stuff.

I am realistic and I was expecting about 110KW at the wheel.

As for dyno tuning, A fan was use, but because the radiator fan was like only 10cm away from the filter, it was blowing more hot air than cold air into the intake. and because witht he E-manage, u can see the intake temp, and it did say 50 degrees.

Hell with it, i will just give my figures now.
2 years ago, i did a dyno run on Beyond motorworks. At tht time I had exhaust system, filter and a BLITZ access ECU, tht made 98.7 KW.

Now before the engine was rebuilt with same exhaust and intake but stock ECU, it dropped back down to 87KW, so it was in pretty bad condition. (this was done at velocity dyno at shores)

After the full engine rebuilt and with all the TODA gear stuck in it, with the same exhaust and intake from 2 years ago. it made 100KW (this was done at velocity dyno at shores)

I made 97.5kW on my stock motor (Link ECU). You SHOULD expect a LOT more tha 10kW from those mods. I wasnt suppesting you were unrealistic. I would be gutted if I didnt make 150-160WHP with the build.

[sergei]

Or maybe he went to dyno where healthy 20v make 60-70kw (like Shoreperformance or where-ever Mr Revhead went to)

[Mr Revhead]

lol yeah!

cept for me it was a shed in wakefield.
a looooong way from auckland!