NA power coming - Not really

[RedMist]

What fuel are you using?
Avgas or don't bother!

With that CR, he's more than likely to loose HP with avgas.

[AE85coupe]

is the engine fully run in yet?

cause if not, it will still be really tight and not have full hp

[Mr Revhead]

if built properly that wont matter much

[AE85coupe]

if built properly that wont matter much

maybe not a huge difference, but it will still have an affect

[Mr Revhead]

by the time hes driven it to the dyno, itll be 99% run in.
by the time a coupla dyno runs have been done itll be sorted.

[Bazda]

if built properly that wont matter much

maybe not a huge difference, but it will still have an affect

most race engines hardly run their engines in, they say it should be run in once its started up. If honed correctly with the right stones and used good rings. I think most race engien builder stick the eng on the dyno for about 10 mins and its time for full power runs and tuning.

[AE85coupe]

thats odd, every engine my flatmate has ever built seems to get better and better over-time, i guess they are usually dirty old 2tg's or 4k's though haha

[Bazda]

thats odd, every engine my flatmate has ever built seems to get better and better over-time, i guess they are usually dirty old 2tg's or 4k's though haha

yes thats prob why lol
old man rebuilt his eng, drove it to welsford and back and that was the run in and the next day was dyno tuning. 200kw @ wheels 2L n/a cossy engine and that was also a gain of 10kw from a little more head porting.

[AE85coupe]

yes thats prob why lol
old man rebuilt his eng, drove it to welsford and back and that was the run in and the next day was dyno tuning. 200kw @ wheels 2L n/a cossy engine and that was also a gain of 10kw from a little more head porting.

faaarrrk 200kw? thats nuts, whats been done to the engine? .... off topic slightly heh

[RomanV]

You'll have to excuse me if I find that a little hard to believe.

Most of the top race 2l NA engines make ~280hp at the fly, 270HP at the wheels with a cosworth engine....

Unless he's pulling 10,000rpm or something, I'm skeptical!

Alright to be making that much HP,

he would need to make 160 ft lbs of torque (2l NA engines seem to make 150-165 ft lbs of torque at peak) at 8530 RPM. (An F20C makes like 150 ft lbs IIRC?)

So that would mean peak torque would have to be something like 170-180 ft lbs, I've never heard of a 2l NA engine making that much torque before, especially one that's so highly strung!

More details on the engine please.

[Mr Revhead]

key word "cosworth"

aka god of engines

[IH8TEC]

some of the stuff i know, dry sump, forged internals, 9000rpm high as compression, head work, cams that sound really sexy at idle, and amazing top end, autronic computer, quad throttle bodies and carbon fibre intake box. tuned length extractors, and more techy stuff as well,

so you beleive what you want roman v, this thing really does fly.

[BZR4AGE]

I've drove it to and back from hamilton for a couple of times until it reached 1000ks. I followed previous posts advice on running in engine. so I don't think running in the engine is part of the problem. But anyway, from what I gather here, here are a few things I should do before I go on the dyno again.

1) Intake fixed with something decent
2) exhaust (remove the cat)
3) a better fuel pump?? because I didn't replace my old one (What should I get)
4) probably heat wrap the extractors to reduce the heat????
5) Should I use my Fuel pressure regulator?? (otherwise I am going to sell it to get some cash back)

I was driving the car yesterday night while the outside was quite cold, it certainly felt quite powerful after 4500 rpm, and (not trying to be stupid here), but it certainly felt similar to a type-R, as I have sat in one before (but maybe I was wrong).

Still mix emotions at this stage:

[1598cc]

get a proper full aftermarket ecu.. one that adjusts timing also.. just adjusting the fueling isnt going to get u far.. the power is in the timing. 12.1, 98 pump gas should be fine, honda guys do it.

[RedMist]

It's very hard to judge whats wrong with your engine if you don't post the facts. Throw up the dyno plot, it may show issues in cam timing, exhaust or intake length.
My guess with your mods you should be pulling 160'ish at the wheels?

[4000GT]

I've drove it to and back from hamilton for a couple of times until it reached 1000ks. I followed previous posts advice on running in engine. so I don't think running in the engine is part of the problem. But anyway, from what I gather here, here are a few things I should do before I go on the dyno again.

1) Intake fixed with something decent
2) exhaust (remove the cat)
3) a better fuel pump?? because I didn't replace my old one (What should I get)
4) probably heat wrap the extractors to reduce the heat????
5) Should I use my Fuel pressure regulator?? (otherwise I am going to sell it to get some cash back)

I was driving the car yesterday night while the outside was quite cold, it certainly felt quite powerful after 4500 rpm, and (not trying to be stupid here), but it certainly felt similar to a type-R, as I have sat in one before (but maybe I was wrong).

Still mix emotions at this stage:

Why waste money on a fuel pump and reg? You dont have a fueling problem, you dont make enough power, I doubt you will every need to replace tose things with anything other than stock if they fail on a NA 20V.

Your cams will be coming o song after 4500rpm which is why it feels faster, though without VVT you will be losing quite a bit of low rpm power. We did a with and without VVT on the dyno... big difference.

[BZR4AGE]

Why waste money on a fuel pump and reg? You dont have a fueling problem, you dont make enough power, I doubt you will every need to replace tose things with anything other than stock if they fail on a NA 20V.

The fuel pump was suggested by fxgt race, as he says the old one (having done 147000ks) is probably quite worn.

As for the dyno plot, I wish i have it too, but the guys didn't bother to get a print out because the gain was so little. all I know was before the engine was done it made 87kw atw, now it makes 100kw. Sorry redmist.

[Bazda]

You'll have to excuse me if I find that a little hard to believe.

Most of the top race 2l NA engines make ~280hp at the fly, 270HP at the wheels with a cosworth engine....

Unless he's pulling 10,000rpm or something, I'm skeptical!

Alright to be making that much HP,

he would need to make 160 ft lbs of torque (2l NA engines seem to make 150-165 ft lbs of torque at peak) at 8530 RPM. (An F20C makes like 150 ft lbs IIRC?)

So that would mean peak torque would have to be something like 170-180 ft lbs, I've never heard of a 2l NA engine making that much torque before, especially one that's so highly strung!

More details on the engine please.

Come to pukekohe this weekend and watch this thing fly around the circuit. its best lap its done is a 1.05.0 on semi slicks.

[RomanV]

Dont get me wrong, it sounds wicked!
It's just I dont think I've ever heard of a 2L NA engine making that much HP before.
It would have to be a pretty mean setup to make that much HP at the wheels, maximum respect if it does.

Once you start getting above 120-130 flywheel hp per litre with an NA, you're really struggling for every extra little gain you make.
Most seem to top out at about 135-140hp per litre for engines of that size.

I mean I've seen fully tuned 'modern' engines like F20Cs and Altezza 3S's making 270-280hp at the flywheel, but only about 240ATW.

For example the new NA renault (IIRC) FWD rally car makes 280hp @ 8000rpm from a 2 litre engine.

[2LTR Rona]

As for the dyno plot, I wish i have it too, but the guys didn't bother to get a print out because the gain was so little. all I know was before the engine was done it made 87kw atw, now it makes 100kw. Sorry redmist.

That seems rather odd...even if there was only a small amount of a gain surely a printout would have been done to back this up so you had it "in black & white" (so to speak)