New engine for my race car

[TRDPWR]

I have a st205 wrc

Im looking at getting a 3sge Beams engine from an rs200 for a starting point.

Mods.

high lift cams / adjustable cam gears
2.2 ltr forged stroker kit
lightweight crank
lightweight flywheel
bigger injecters
turbo / dump pipe etc
fuel pump
cold air intake
new ecu
independant throttle bodies
new valves/springs

possibly dry sumping it tho im not sure yet



thoughts? comments?

[sergei]

you might have problems fitting the engine as the VVT part of the engine is sticking too far, aslo it has completely different sump setup along other major differences.

[XERO]

Talk to Roman V he's the guy in the know on Beams goodness...

[RomanV]

VVTI doesnt help all that much in a turbo application IIRC, and its a huge PITA to tune properly.
(Although sounds like you want to run fixed cams, if you specify adjustable cam gears )

Although you do get a few goodies like sodium cooled valves and coil pack ignition that the gen 3 doesnt get.
Ooooh and a stronger engine block too.

If you're adamant on the idea, and looking for a VVTI engine to suit a celica, I've got one including loom/ecu/etc from an ST202, which will bolt straight in if you're interested.
Fully rebuilt with some good bits BTW, never been run.

However my advice would be to just build up the gen 3 instead, it's been done a million times before, and is a pretty safe route to power.

Although a turbo VVTI engine would be pretty cool, I heard that the WRC corolla used a heavily modified single VVTI 3SGE engine. So you'd be well and truly 'WRC' style if you did.

You'd need a fairly fancy ECU to run it with a turbo though, MoTec or similar.

But if you've got enough $$$ for all of the other things above, what's the extra few k for a motec.

[sergei]

The question is why do you need VVTI engine in first place, if you are after the power, than it is much easier to get it out of ST205 engine, and you can get a lot of power for a street car, in my opinion, for a street car or occasional club car you don't need to have more than 300-350Hp, and it is easily done whith ST205 setup. If you are going to get enourmous 400+hp power, it will be undrivable, unrelaible, hungry on gas, and actually slower than 300Hp car with wide power range.

[Adydas]

Ball park $5600 to work a Gen 3.

[RomanV]

Yeah my vote definitely goes to 'stick with the gen 3'.

[Akane]

And you can get away with factory bottom end if you're aming for ~350awhp only

Tuning is the key.

If you're going for more than 350wheel hp you should be looking for a skyline GTR instead, they are easier to make more power, and more reliable at higher power level.

[strx7]

And you can get away with factory bottom end if you're aming for ~350awhp only

Tuning is the key.

If you're going for more than 350wheel hp you should be looking for a skyline GTR instead, they are easier to make more power, and more reliable at higher power level.

this is a toyota forum................. SUPRA 2JZ..........

[Alex B]

^^What if he wants 4wd?

[TRDPWR]

the car is not a road car it is a 98% race car only has to be road leagal due to regs. and why would i want a skyline???? every man and his dog has a skyline i havent seen that many st205 wrc cars around.

i belived the advantage of vvti was it was a good way to get the power up high int he rpm range.

after talking to a few people they said if tuned right the turbo can do most of the work pre 5000rpm and vvti post 5000rpm roughly.

is this accurate?

[sergei]

NOT.
VVTi works continously. VVTi does not give you top end. It does improve low-mid range.
VVTiL system is similar to VTEC. It kicks in usually arround 6krpm. I can't think of any other engine except 2ZZGE which has VVTiL system.
With CT20b turbo you have more top end than you would ever get without sacrificing mid range.
High top end is useless if it takes ages to get there anywhay (thats what you get with oversized aftermarket turbos, you get lots of kW but car actually becomes slower).
It far more economical to save money from not using VVTi head and investing in aftermarket ECU, brakes and suspension. Brakes and suspensions should be the first priority on a race car.
CT20b is good for atleast 300Hp at the engine, same goes for stock exaust manifold, stock I/C, stock engine.

[RomanV]

Nah, other way around I'd imagine.

Basically, VVTI alters the angle of the intake cam.

Which means you can run way more aggressive cams, which would ordinarily make the car gutless at low rpm, but retarding or advancing the cam to suit the RPM gives maximum torque throughout the range.

So you could have a turbo + cams setup for high RPM, and retain some of your low end power with VVTI.

I think that antilag is a much cooler way to do this though.

[sergei]

I look at VVTi from different point of view:
Say take same spec cams, tune them to make most power. If you "add" VVTi you will improve bottom end without sacrificing top end.