What engine for my carina?

[RomanV]

Okay, so I've been doing a bit of thinking about what engine to put in my carina.
(Which is a 1983 AA60 Hatch, with 3AU BTW)
Original plans were to use my spare beams 3SGE engine, but lately I've been thinking that maybe something a bit different would be more fun.
I've already got a stupidly well handling NA car, I've been thinking perhaps its time for a stupidly poor handling turbo car.

Anyway, any suggestions, with pros/cons?

I'm looking for something fairly easy to fit, and not costing the world, but am open to sensible suggestions.

My thoughts so far:

3TGTE:
pros: Easy easy to fit, cheap to buy
cons: you cant get parts for them any more apparently, like cam belt tensioners etc. And they're all pretty old these days.

3SGTE:
pros: Decent power, easy power upgrade path
cons: they dont come in a RWD configuration, so are a PITA to fit.

4AGTE:
pros: Easy as to fit a 4AGE engine, not much harder to fit a turbo.
cons: Quite a bit of farting around, expensive if I want to start with a GZE block.

CA18DET
pros: RWD configuration, cheap as, reasonable power
cons: It's a nissan motor in a Toyota, I'd rather stick with Toyota if I could!
Driveshaft modifcations/custom mounts etc required too.

Hmmmm, any other suggestions?
Is there anything cheap, that will more or less bolt straight in for the meantime, that is a bit better than a 3AU? Like a 2TG or something? Preferably something that I could get with a bellhousing and engine mounts to suit the T40 and cross member already in the car.

Cheers
Dave

[Stealer Of Souls]

Turbo the 3A till it melts....
Then chuck in a 4AGTE...

What's your purpose? What ya gonna do with it?

[RomanV]

I was originally wanting it as a gravel rally car, but changed my mind.
(It doesnt really seem suited to gravel etc, after driving it)

Basically, I think I now want it to be pretty much the opposite of the MR2.

The MR2 has a linear and predictable powerband, brilliant handling, great engine and steering response, etc etc... all of the things that make a car technically great.
However it's a bit too good at all of this, so it's a bit boring to drive at times, strangely enough.
As I think a lot of the driver involvement is gone, you just point it into a corner and mash the gas, and it goes as fast as you're brave/stupid enough to go. It doesnt DO anything though, no understeer, oversteer, or.. ANYTHING really.

I pretty much want the carina to be a rowdy car that will have a lot more driver involvement, eg. understeer, oversteer, sledging, powersliding, wheel spinning, turbo lag, etc etc.
All of the traits that the MR2 doesnt have, that will make the carina a lot slower but a lot more fun to drive.
It seems like a stupid way to want to build a car, but I've come to realise that fast =! fun.
Which is why I'm leaning towards a turbo engine now, I think the carina will be more fun with an engine that takes a bit more involvement to drive.
I'd rather have a car that feels like it's hauling at 80ks, rather than a car that feels like you havent even started when you're cruising at 150 or something.

Well actually I'd rather have both.

[Jebus]

Check this dave, 4AGE, link comp, low boost turbs, 8kg front springs, 6kg rears, massive camber, roll cage, hilux rear, W55.

Enter D2 events, D1, Autocross, Open/Track days (itll be a race car with semi slicks and a drift car with 185/60/14's)

When the 4AGE spits the dummy, could last for years??? then drop a GZE bottom end into it and retune for 15psi.

I know what id be doing

[RomanV]

Yep everything you stated except for engine is a given at this stage.

4AGTE does sound like fun.

Only question then, is what to do with my 3S!
It still needs a bit of work before I could sell it, and wouldnt make near my money back on it.

Hmmm, beams setup with caldina GTT bottom end perhaps?

Only PITA thing with that is getting an ECU that could run it!

Stupid modern technology.

[Stealer Of Souls]

Stupid modern technology.

Carbs.

As I think a lot of the driver involvement is gone, you just point it into a corner and mash the gas, and it goes as fast as you're brave/stupid enough to go. It doesnt DO anything though, no understeer, oversteer, or.. ANYTHING really.

Grow bigger nuts. If you're car can't scare you, it's more likely that you aren't pushing it hard enough... Bring her to the track and let's see this thing go. I'm interested to see just what it can do.
Alternatively, I've almost finished running my engine in. Once that's done it's off for the fine tune and check. Then it's time to come out to scenic drive just to see what you can do...

[RomanV]

Grow bigger nuts. If you're car can't scare you, it's more likely that you aren't pushing it hard enough...

Yeah, I've had this conversation before.
It's hard to understand what I mean without coming for a drive in it.

Bring her to the track and let's see this thing go. I'm interested to see just what it can do.

Yeah, keen as when I can confirm that my AF ratios are a bit more sensible!

Alternatively, I've almost finished running my engine in. Once that's done it's off for the fine tune and check. Then it's time to come out to scenic drive just to see what you can do...

Cool I'd like to come for a ride in the '85 some time, PM me when it's sorted.

[HELBND]

hey dave, if you decide to go 4agte, i could be selling my smallport sometime next year

[Silent Knight]

hey dave, if you decide to go 4agte, i could be selling my smallport sometime next year

Your smallport smokes more in a day than what I used to smoke in a month when I was still smoking though...

[HELBND]

hey dave, if you decide to go 4agte, i could be selling my smallport sometime next year

Your smallport smokes more in a day than what I used to smoke in a month when I was still smoking though...

yea but hell probably want to replace the pistons to slightly lower compression, ergo he will need new rings anyway

[Silent Knight]

hey dave, if you decide to go 4agte, i could be selling my smallport sometime next year

Your smallport smokes more in a day than what I used to smoke in a month when I was still smoking though...

yea but hell probably want to replace the pistons to slightly lower compression, ergo he will need new rings anyway

I don't see why he should even bother with a measily little 4A...

Be a real man, throw a UZ or JZ in there.

[bluemaumau]

hey dave, if you decide to go 4agte, i could be selling my smallport sometime next year

Your smallport smokes more in a day than what I used to smoke in a month when I was still smoking though...

yea but hell probably want to replace the pistons to slightly lower compression, ergo he will need new rings anyway

I don't see why he should even bother with a measily little 4A...

Be a real man, throw a UZ or JZ in there.

yea and lose all handling!

[deaf_rattle]

1uz would be my plan. light compact 4l motor.
would still handle well, how much does a 4agte weigh?

1uz is alot lighter than you think

[Boosted_162]

I say go for the Beams 3SGE. You already got the motor, your "experienced" with the wiring nightmare , its definately different (theres almost nothing beams powered thats not meant to be), and i for some reason have a great love for the 3SGTE/3SGE Beams .

[RS13]

I'd say CA18DET, cheap to buy, plenty of aftermarket support, easy to get good power out of, not the lightest of motors though, but I'd say wouldn't be much bigger or heavier than a 4AGE. My nearly stock CA18DET in my old 200sx was huge fun to thrash! I regularly had it pounding away at the limiter, never blew anything, just wore the clutch out! And it propelled my 1100kg S13 to 230km/h pretty easily!

If you're after a budget build though, 2T and 3TGTE would be easier to install, as you said, and there are parts for them everywhere, so even if you somehow broke your cambelt tensioner.. I'd guarantee they'd be 5 people within a 10km radius of you with a couple lying in the garage!

[itsamirage]

Rooooooootang it

[flygt4]

4agte's are actually reasonably involved to build properly, and even being cheap and putting a tdo4 on an n/a bottom end may or may not last long. they are a bit finicky to turn n-s too.

ca18det's are awesome engines, slightly cheaper as people seem to view them as less desirable than the sr20,and as you said they are already in n-s configuration.

one of the guys on here has a little multicoloured rwd starlet with a lightly modded sohc ca18et , and it freaken hauls , was managing 1.24's round manfield last time i checked. looks like a hellishly fun little car.

[Caveman]

Dave dave dave.... have you already forgotten.

Manifold
Turbo
Suck through carb
pipe over the motor into the engine
oil lines



It has its disadvantages, such as having a nice mixed compressed air fuel mix in your plenum and IC pipe for when you back fire.

But its all about driver involvment, characteristics

[Dell'Orto]

Turbo 5K

[bluemaumau]

3t