silvertop woes (aw11)

[cogent]

ive got a first gen silvertop from a ae101 and the matching gearbox out of said car in my AW11, and im having trouble with it.

The engine had close to 200,000 ks on it when we pulled it from the ae101 and ive probably put about 3000 or so on it since.

For the swap, we (myself and 84vvt from the mr2 club) used the standard ECU, and mated the engine wiring harness to the mr2 body harness and for the most part it works pretty well.

The problems im having, are listed below.

- No pull. Its very smooth and only really feels any stronger above 5000 or so - is this normal? Initially we thought this might be a cause of the very restricted exhaust we had on it, however we have freed it up yesterday and performance hasnt increased. Noise however, has.

- runs rich - when you boot it to redline (when its warm, i drive it under 4000 when cold) browney smoggy smoke pours out of the exhaust - especially in 1st and 2nd. I understand the 20vs generally run rich, but i cant imagine a car from the showroom floor doing this!

- not sure if vvt is engaging (possibly the cause of no pull?!) i intend to do the solenoid test in the next few nights. is the vvt solenoid a wear item?

- reverse idle up - when its cold, it idles between 900 and 1000, as it warms up, it moves to 1500/1600 and sometimes 1800.

- dropping oil, i suspect the cam cover gasket as its all over the belts.

to try and sort these out i have:
double checked vacuum hoses for leaks
replaced spark plugs
replaced fuel filter
complete oil change
double checked sensors are plugged in
replaced exhaust (now running silvertop headers to lengthened 2-1 pipe into 2.5" mild steel piping into a resonator into a high flow muffler)

I dunno, maybe i should just buy a blacktop head and bolt that to it, probably cheaper

[slighty_sykotic]

Guess you have done a ecu check light test? If not, start there.


Umm,

Timing sweet?


Run an led and a small (470ohms or so) resister or a led test light in series with the vvt terminal, and see if its engaging. If not, could be caused by faulty temp sensor, meaning no vvt and idle up the hell...

Accutly...

Check cam timing. Sounds like that, very much so. Could checks valves are opening sweet with a old school test vacuum gauge. Should be able to tell you if things are sealing right/at the right time.

Try another ecu if above fails. See if the new ecu can pick up any faults.

--Sykotic

[cogent]

yeah have bridged T and E1 on the diagnostic to flash the CEL - it used to pickup the O2 sensor before we hooked it up (when we first started the car) but it doesnt pick anything up anymore since we connected the O2.

Ignition Timing and temp sensor troubles sound like possible causes, as i know a lot of 'things' are tied into the temperature.

The 20v has two temp sensors by the water lines - ive highlighted which one we have used, going by the way most people do the 20v swap into an aw11.



cheers, ill try the LED test tonight[/img]

[sergei]

The grey temp sensor is for ecu (WTS) - it should be connected only to ecu (no temp guages running of it or any other crap).
White one is just a thermo-switch (to turn on the radiator fan).
The temperature guage sensor (which should go to your body harness - guage cluster) is behind the housing on which WTS is located.
On your pic the purple circle touches it - it is an 1 wire blade type connector.

[cogent]

The grey temp sensor is for ecu (WTS) - it should be connected only to ecu (no temp guages running of it or any other crap).
White one is just a thermo-switch (to turn on the radiator fan).
The temperature guage sensor (which should go to your body harness - guage cluster) is behind the housing on which WTS is located.
On your pic the purple circle touches it - it is an 1 wire blade type connector.

hmm ok. the grey plug goes to the ECU (straight to it like you said) and the single little tab connector runs my temp gauge on the dash cluster (again like you said).

Im running the tempsensor from the AW11 body harness to run the fan that sits inside the side vent, so ive just replaced the white one with the aw11 one (hence white one not being used).

[cogent]

some more information
i watched the two videos revhead posted in another thread regarding sick vvt pulleys. Mine has a tickity tick noise at idle, much like the example in the two videos, which suggests to me the VVT pulley might be rooted. Ive got another silvertop head at home so i can nick the parts from there to check that.

The only differance is the ticking in the videos is slightly slower than mine, however this may be a byproduct of my high idle aswell (faster idle could mean faster ticking).

if the vvt pulley is rooted, can this cause a drastic change in performance? 84vvt's blacktop equipped AW11 pulls a SHITLOAD more than mine does, and more than the differance between the two engines should be.

[slighty_sykotic]

VVT can click all it likes, most of the time they still work fine though.

Do the led test first.

Have you checked cam timing?

[cogent]

yeah but the clickings f.cking annoying

Havnt had a chance to check the ignition or cam timing, sorry to sound like a noob but how do i do both of these? ill do a quick search but can you give me a rundown of how you would do it?

will try the LED tonight if i get a chance, do i just stick a LED inline with either of the two wires going to the VVT connector? do I need any resistors or anything?

[slighty_sykotic]

Run an led and a small (470ohms or so) resister or a led test light in series with the vvt terminal, and see if its engaging.

Make sure the led is the right way around (just try both ways if you don't know).

And for cam timing, take cam covers off and move the crank with a big socket until its at tdc on piston 1, then check the cam marks are where they are meant to be.

Get someone to help you I think. Same with the timing (computer must be put into diag mode, do a search on here).

--Sykotic

[sergei]

unless you don't care about burning your led use resistor. Also keep in mind that LEDs have polarity, also they can be burned from back EMF of the VVT solenoid (although darlington that switches the solenoid should take care of that).

[cogent]

awesome, thanks guys - ill give the LED and resistor a shot tonight and report back what I find.

Unfortunately most of my tools are at my parents place and not at my apartment in town, so i wont be able to check the cam timing tonight, and my timing light (which ive never used!) is also out at my parents so i cant check ignition timing.

If the VVT is faulty, is it likely to be the cause for the masses of unburnt fuel coming out the exhaust? in my mind (bear with me) i can picture something along the lines of

computer expects VVT at x% throttle
x% throttle reached
computer ups fuel to meet the requirements with VVT engaged
vvt doesnt engage at x% throttle
mixture richens the f.ck up and dumps smoggy crap out the exhaust

thanks for your help so far, i really want to sort this power loss problem out!

[Caveman]

Run diagnositcs, bridge terminals t1 and te1 (sometimes t1 and e)

Could be faulty knock sensor, or knock sensor not plugged in

http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=35814
http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/ECU%20Diagnostic%20Codes.htm

[Caveman]

Run diagnositcs, bridge terminals t1 and te1 (sometimes t1 and e)

Could be faulty knock sensor, or knock sensor not plugged in

http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=35814
http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/ECU%20Diagnostic%20Codes.htm

Edit im an idiot looks like you've already done that...

could be faulty knock sensor? That really kills the power

Else look at the vvt

[Loudtoy]

Mine also ran rather rich, but that wasn't really an issue just everyone behind me knew when i was giving it a boot full. What intake are you using, i know mine was pretty flat when i had the standard intake on there and that high idle sounds like a vacume leak or your tps is way out in adjustment - i assume you are using the standard throttle bodies with it. Come to thing of it if your tps is way out that could be a partial cause of the lack of pull as well. Some one will probably correct me on this and maybe shed some more light on the problem.

[cogent]

Using the stock intake (factory plenum, factory AFM, factory plastic trumpets) with a pod filter on the end of the AFM.

ill see if i can find out how to check/adjust the TPS cause yeah that could be possible.

ill try locate the knock sensor aswell - is that the one that sits in the block underneath the quads with green (i think) wires going to it?

[cogent]

ok update

last night i tested the VVT by grounding one pin on the solenoid (the thing next to the exhaust) and putting 12v from the battery across the other pin. There was no clicking noise or anything - same if i plugged the vvt plug in and grounded the wire coming from the ECU while the car was running. I expected the idle to change but it didnt. As i couldnt get the VVT to engage manually, I didnt try the LED in line with the ecu and vvt solenoid.

Ok so i think my vvt solenoid is rooted for one. Ive got another silvertop head I can swap the vvt from to try and sort that out.

I couldnt get under the car as I didnt have a jack so I couldnt check the knock sensor unfortunately.

Also interesting - I unplugged the TPS and again there was no change - im not sure what this means, but both idling and driving theres no differance between having the tps plugged in or not.

In hindsight I should have also tryed unplugging the WTS to see if that made a differance in its behaviour also.

Im starting to think every damn sensor is broken!

[sergei]

You problem might be in siezed VVT pulley in combination with leaky injectors. (VVT pulley will not cause a lot of black smoke).

[slighty_sykotic]

Im starting to think every damn sensor is broken!

Like i said up there^^

What is linked to all sensors?....



Try another ecu.

--Sykotic

[cogent]

Im thinking thats a good way of eliminating a major componant as being at fault.

Does anyone know anyone in wellington with a spare pre facelift silvertop ECU - manual?

I need to get a multimeter onto the TPS aswell, and also check the cam and ignition timing is correct.

[slighty_sykotic]

Ill have a look for mine, i have one, its just spread around different places, have to find it.