garrett bearing pack wearing, what causes this?

[gtcielo]

I have a garrett gt2530 on my 4agze, the seals went causing it to smoke like a train, then new piston ring seals went in and it done the same after 1000ks. It turned out to have 2.0 mm play in the bearing pack wen it should be 0.4 from memory, now has a new bearing pack new seals. what could cause this? has any1 been here and done this? if you havent please dont answer

Any help will be appreciated

[IH8TEC]

the same thing happened on my garrett t3, dont think the guy that rebuilt it found out why, but they also machined out the centre and made custom bearings for it. on mine it just looked like the exhaust side bearing had been cooking itself, possibly not enough oil in its life somewhere as it was a second hand turbo. the clearances were shocking on it when we compared it to what it was meant to be.

was there any scouring on the old bearing?

[gtcielo]

nope 1 end of the bearing pack had a blue heat mark, the play in the bearing damaged the ends of the piston ring seals

[IH8TEC]

oh ok, i know what you mean now, sorry i can't help, i hope for you sake it doesn't happen again, fingers crossed

brendon

[Dell'Orto]

Would oil feed pressure cause it maybe?

[gtcielo]

It doesnt leak oil out the seals until the seals are poked, normaly when you fit a new turbo and dont use a restricter it will leake oil out the seals then when you put in a restricter the problem is solved

Does any 1 know what size hole a restrictor should be for a bb turbo?

[vvega]

.7mm
and not having one will $&#$% your bearings

v

[gtcielo]

well suposedly depending on how much oil pressure your engine runs there is no set restricter for all engines

[vvega]

so now your telling me

almost every japanese car out there runs around 80psi...dependant on oil temp

do you want help or dont you

BTW garret specifies that sized restrictors on its turbo's no matter the car

how bout this
go read up the garret website
probably the best thing you can do is to educat yourself

there website is full of great info and help
they also have a email you can use
email them with your problem and tehy will give you a definitive answer

[gtcielo]

already have he told me there was no set restriction the car seems to be runing fine now

chers

[vvega]

funny i emailed them with your issue and they came back with teh oposite

.....

Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing.

The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines.

Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.

The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.

[gtcielo]

What are you on about that is posted on the garrett web site ive already read that and it still says depending on how much oil pressure you run depends on what restricter you need

why dont you try reading whats posted on the site before emailing them

[vvega]

so you modded your oil pump on your 4agze to give less oil pressure
or did you fit a restrictor to keep the pressure below 80psi(BTW that the max your engine runs)

and yes they do run for a while ...then they start to puff smoke
and for teh rocord
gt turbo's are quite sloppy from new
more so than .4mm

.7mm is whats require t take your 80 psi of oil pressure down to teh max 45 you turbo can have

a badly plumbrd return line can also cause your symptyms

ask akane
he knows all about how importat oil pressure and drains are to a gt turbo
..

BTW i just took that from the site
i emailed garret years ago about this problem
and since sortign out drains and feeds ive never had a issue with gt turbo's since then

[gtcielo]

no i didnt mod the oil pump, its always ran a restricter even with the other turbos ive run

yeah the return line doesnt have quite enough drop but ive been told it should be enough

[vvega]

with teh return teh problem is mostly bends
ive seen some very short hoses work very well...but if there is any area teh oil can pool at all in teh pipe tehn it will blow seals
specially during braking etc..if oil can run up teh hose during driving then that by itself can cause failure with teh gt's

they say theremore resiliant...but when it comes to oiling
there bang on or there bang

[RH9]

Who rebuilt your GT2530? Not many people in NZ are capable of it.

Did you get it VSR balanced afterwards?

All Garrett GT turbo's have the "pressed in" type oil restrictor in the inlet feed which can easily be removed so make sure its still there.

On engines with very high oil pressure such as the FD3S 13BT we often have to run a second restrictor in the oil feed line to stop seals from blowing on the GT turbo's.

[gtcielo]

it was rebuilt by altec yeah it was balanced, yes it does have the press fit oil restricter in the bearing houising do you think this would be enough for it i am also runing another 1 in the oil feed line

does any1 know how much oil pressure the 4agze runs?

[vvega]

with good oil and it not been to hot you will see 80psi...easily at time rpm
why 80psi... because that what your relief valve is set at

what size is the oriface in your turbo and in the line ??

just for intrest what did the rebuild cost you ?
i thnk akanes was about 700 for the new core installed

[gtcielo]

the rebuild cost me 560 the 1st time just for new seals and then it was rebuilt again with new seals and bearing pack the second time cost me 190

not sure what size exactly the 1 in the line is about 1mm and the 1 in bearing housing is rough guess 1 1/2mm