Are moderrn driving aids just making us worse drivers...

[fivebob]

ABS and its 'grab, release, grab release' method isn't as good as braking the point just before lockup.

That maybe true with a very experienced driver on a consistent surface, but with a good 4 channel ABS on an inconsistent surface the ABS would probably stop faster. Provided of course you just don't jam on the brakes and expect the ABS to do the whole job for you.

About the only time ABS is worse is on loose surfaces like gravel or snow, where is better to lock up and plough

[Mr Revhead]

yeah in controlled tests a good driver can outbrake some ABS systems

in a panic situation on a soaking wet road? different story

[Si]

Driver AIDS are badmmmkay.

Use Protection:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE0605/S00146.htm


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[Dragger_Dan]

I think the big problem is the illusion of a safer car because of all the driver aids - some people may consider driving faster or taking more risks because they think the car will handle it.

I doubt that you can stop a car with ABS from 120km/h in the same distance you could stop exactally the same car with no ABS from say 105km/h. Yet consistantly you see two types of car speeding on the open road. The first is boyracers, and driver aids or not most of them are bound to cross the limits of their car someday.

The other type of mass speeder you see on the road is the buisness class gent in a BMW or Audi or Falcon/Commidore. An intersting experiment woudl be to interview some of these drivers (without risk of prosecution) and to find out why they drive so fast and whether they think their car makes it safe for them to do so.

[Stealer Of Souls]

I think this last post is heading toward where I'm coming from.

In my opinion people are taking less care because they're being told the car is "xxx amount safer" than before, so instead of relying on their own good judgement, and sensible driving practice they just go for broke and expect that they'll be okay.
At the end of the day you can save every idiot from themselves.

A classic example is the number of people I've known to own 4wd vehicles (VR4, subbie etc) with traction control (and other associated aids), put on crappy tyres, and just expect the traction control to sort it out for them. One in particular the final diagnosis of a problem was parts prematurely wearing becuase the control aid was being forced to intervene so often.


I think part of the solution to safety issues really should be driver training so that (hopefully) you never need the aids to come to your rescue.
And for all the people here who attest to using ABS, think carefully about that. I don't have ABS. I honestly can't recall a time that I've had the car sliding due to an emergency braking situation. Now that's probably 90% situation (I don't drive a heck of a lot), and 10% attitude. But 10% goes a long way, people who know me will attest that I don't always drive sedately, and even my normal driving is reasonably aggressive.

[Dragger_Dan]

I go the other way - I consider attitude to be a lot more of a problem than anything else. For one attitudes get you into situations that cause problems. The second point is that if 500 people managed to go round that same corner without crashing that day, why where you the one who crashed into the guardrail. Situation is the same, the difference is the driver and the car. Of course I realise that a lot of the time the car is not up to standard which can cause a lot of accidents, but part of that can be the attitude of the driver as well - the 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude.

Speed kills - or does it? I'm sure that if you were really thinking hard and making good decisions you could drive at 160 on the open road, and providing you made good decisions in regards to where to overtake and how fast to corner etc, you could do it perfectly safely. But the people who actually speed on the open road are the same people you see cutting others off at the ends of passing lanes and overtaking on blind corners - people with the wrong attitude toward driving. Speed kills when idiots are driving.

[Si]

Speed kills - or does it? I'm sure that if you were really thinking hard and making good decisions you could drive at 160 on the open road, and providing you made good decisions in regards to where to overtake and how fast to corner etc, you could do it perfectly safely.

Sure, but if some other retard hits you and your going 160 then bye bye.
Im sure most people claim to be able to drive safe at 120+. its the other people on the road that you have to worry about.

Gambling on unknown (ie other drives) odds is like pissing into the wind.

[Adamal]

Speed never kills.



Its the sudden loss of momentum that does

[Dragger_Dan]

Speed never kills.



Its the sudden loss of momentum that does

I was waiting for that one. The biggest problem with this argument, like the boyracer argument is the innocent bystanders. The best idea would be to take away stupid road rules such as the speed limit, and the idiots would naturally kill themselves off. But sure enough, those pesky innocent bystanders get in the way.

[Cahuna]

Too dangerous driving at high-speeds on many NZ roads. Keep it for where it is safe, like the racetrack or Autobahns. I've travelled at speeds slightly above the speed limit before (not often) and I'm always paranoid about coming around a corner to find another car pulling out of a driveway, animal in the road etc. It is one thing to feel capable of controlling a car at 140km/h or whatever (which I do regularly when racing), quite another to stop the car in a sudden emergency from those same speeds.

And to keep this on-topic, driver aids do help to save a driver in such situations (within what is possible given the laws of physics). They don't help the drivers get into those situations in the first place - the drivers' own stupidity is plenty good enough to do that!

[Stealer Of Souls]

I go the other way - I consider attitude to be a lot more of a problem than anything else.....

I consider it attitude breed in part from the false sense of security.

Also I believe the only real accident involves acts of god (struck by lightning, earthquake, sudden unexpected heart failure), everything else is an incident caused by operator error. And as such the truest answer lies in fixing the operator, not the equipment.

[Dragger_Dan]

Also I believe the only real accident involves acts of god (struck by lightning, earthquake, sudden unexpected heart failure), everything else is an incident caused by operator error. And as such the truest answer lies in fixing the operator, not the equipment.

Amen to that (lol )