mega grunty honda motors

[Defective]

And Toyota backed the series.

and that i bet is the main reason....

Just because there is a race series dedicated to a certain brand/model/engine dosnt mean its the best...

otherwise we would all be driving HQ holdens.....

[fivebob]

And Toyota backed the series.

and that i bet is the main reason....

No the reason is that Formula Atlantic/Formula Pacific was a spec motor series. The BDA Ford was getting past it's use by date and Toyota stepped up to the mark and supplied an execellent replacement engine in the form of the 4A-GE.

[RedMist]

Most people here know I have a huge Toyota bias to the point of stupidity. However if I'm to enter offroading class 3 again (1632cc) I'll certainly be going down the Honda route. I just think its considerably easier to attain 200whp (which would be my goal).

The head has a huge valve area. A light weight block that doesnt appear to suffer from its light weight construction. Parts seem to be more attainable, in both price and availabilty, for the B16 now than the 16 valve 4age. Ebay currently has 668 B16a search hits as opposed to 217 4age hits.

[Defective]

And Toyota backed the series.

and that i bet is the main reason....

No the reason is that Formula Atlantic/Formula Pacific was a spec motor series. The BDA Ford was getting past it's use by date and Toyota stepped up to the mark and supplied an execellent replacement engine in the form of the 4A-GE.

i guess we're just lucky MG or lada didnt decide to sponser it then.....

[Mr Revhead]

yeah the amercians have certainly embraced the b16a.. hence the large parts avail for it.
if toyota had chosen to sell the 4age in as many models as honda did the b16a youd see the same thing with that.

[fivebob]

And Toyota backed the series.

and that i bet is the main reason....

No the reason is that Formula Atlantic/Formula Pacific was a spec motor series. The BDA Ford was getting past it's use by date and Toyota stepped up to the mark and supplied an execellent replacement engine in the form of the 4A-GE.

i guess we're just lucky MG or lada didnt decide to sponser it then.....

It wasn't a sponsorship deal, it was a motor supply deal. If it was a sponsorship deal then the quality of the motor would matter, it's all about exposure for the sponsor. A motor supply deal may have benefits for the supplier, but the overriding factor is suitability(quality) of the motor.

[Defective]

if toyota had chosen to sell the 4age in as many models as honda did the b16a youd see the same thing with that.

shit, i would have thought the 4AGE was in more models than the B16A....

[RedMist]

yeah the amercians have certainly embraced the b16a.. hence the large parts avail for it.
if toyota had chosen to sell the 4age in as many models as honda did the b16a youd see the same thing with that.

Okay then, rather than debating the marquee, lets debate the specifics of the engine. The technical details that make one engine better than the other in the application of a 200whp NA engine.

B16 > 4age
Considerably larger valve area. The 4age 16 valve has an inlet valve area of 5845mm^2 whereas the B16 is 6842mm^2. Thats a huge 15% increase. Exhaust valves are a similar story with a massive 17% more area than the 16 valve 4age. You could even the score by installing larger valves in the 4age but then you get into masking issues.

Lighter weight block
VTEC, I cant see why you couldn't apply two cam profiles to a 200whp engine.

Longer Rods
The rods are longer 132mm as opposed to 123mm for the 4age. It allows the piston to sit at almost TDC for longer. This in theroy is supposed to build more pressure and more power. It also doesnt provide as much side angular thrust on the pistons, as such you can run a smaller piston skirt.

4age > B16
Stronger block?
Lighter Rods?

[Mr Revhead]

if toyota had chosen to sell the 4age in as many models as honda did the b16a youd see the same thing with that.

sh*t, i would have thought the 4AGE was in more models than the B16A....

not in america, the b16a was a far more mainstream engine than the 4age

[Defective]

if toyota had chosen to sell the 4age in as many models as honda did the b16a youd see the same thing with that.

sh*t, i would have thought the 4AGE was in more models than the B16A....

not in america, the b16a was a far more mainstream engine than the 4age

ohhh, i thought you meant here and JDM....

[Mr Revhead]

redmist.... wrong thread!!!

im not debating/disagreeing etc with that....

im purely after details of high HP honda engines...

im NOT saying they cant to it
im NOT saying the 4age does it better

[Lith]

Are you talking specifically B16As? Have you paid much attention to the thread that Deanis linked to which is FULL of NA Honda builds and dyno results?

There are things in there making upwards of 200kw @ wheels, and so many B-series and others making over 200hp @ wheels its not funny.

[Mr Revhead]

yes i mentioned that before....

the above post was in repsonse to redmist.....

[deanis]

ive been trying to find some specs on the clutchmasters honda insight. its probably the pinnacle of NA hondas. 350whp and a 9.4 quarter mile time. i have read an article on it in d sport magazine but ive lost it. the engine is a K20 bored out to 2.4 litres. they did have quads but have gona back to an intake manifold with one throttle. the car looks a lot different to this now, its white and orange with a bellmouth out the front.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/feat ... index.html

these are a few fast b series street cars from the states.

http://www.dragsport.com/issue/2005/070 ... icle.shtml
http://www.dragsport.com/issue/11/feat_article.shtml

[Erelyes]

Longer Rods
The rods are longer 132mm as opposed to 123mm for the 4age. It allows the piston to sit at almost TDC for longer. This in theroy is supposed to build more pressure and more power. It also doesnt provide as much side angular thrust on the pistons, as such you can run a smaller piston skirt.

Wouldn't this mean that the 4AGE has a shorter stroke, meaning higher theoretical revlimit, but less low down torque? If it's a power figure you're after the 4AGE would have an advantage there. However it would sacrifice midrange/lowend torque as a result, something the B16A already had an advantage in with VTEC.

Thats my way of looking at it. And yes, I know the whole B16A vs 4AGE thing is offtopic, but as long as the discussion remains intelligent and non-inflammatory, I don't see why it shouldn't continue....

[matt dunn]

Wouldn't this mean that the 4AGE has a shorter stroke,

Stroke is 100% determined by the crankshaft only.

search for rod/stroke ratio and read all about it,

I looking into it a while ago actually,

here's a link

http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articl ... /index.htm

[BWDOWN]

I'm Honda biast sure but at least I can appreciate a good engine when I see one, as I have done in all cases..

Mr Revhead please... your are one of the most biast people I have ever seen on a forum and even when people produce facts you choose to ignore them and try hunt down more info. Why cant you just face facts???

B16A>any 4AGE

/end story

[Mr Revhead]

and where have i been putting down honda engines in this thread???

ffs try and look into something new.....

[MacrosSiR]

pdf of JG engine dynamics's turn key engine list.
http://jgenginedynamics.com/Adobe%20pdf ... _15_05.pdf
one is designed for 340+hp. Although again it's bored and stoked to 2.3L

Dyno sheet for 239hp stock crank b16a
http://jgenginedynamics.com/_dyno%20pdf ... 0239HP.pdf


They also sell 7age engines too

[deaf_rattle]

I'm Honda biast sure but at least I can appreciate a good engine when I see one, as I have done in all cases..

Mr Revhead please... your are one of the most biast people I have ever seen on a forum and even when people produce facts you choose to ignore them and try hunt down more info. Why cant you just face facts???

B16A>any 4AGE

/end story

please keep this thread on topic, its actually going quite well.
please state why "B16A>any 4AGE" or are you one of those people that like rotors because they "sound cool"