Gull's new 98 Octane Biofuel

[nobody]

Just saw on http://www.stuff.co.nz/4148980a10.html that Gull are offering a new Biofuel - Gull Force 10, in NZ.

With more info here: http://www.gull.co.nz/html/force10/welcome.htm

It'll be 10 per cent bioethanol (hence the name) and rated at 98 RON.

Are there any problems/side effects this fuel could cause, or is it all good?

[GTTpower]

Im sure running ethanol can screw up the fittings in your fuel lines, but someone more knowledgable could expand on that.

[Leon]

I was told that the ethanol based fuels were more likely to fall out of suspension in vehicles with long inlet manifold runners.

[barryogen]

all petrol stations will have it eventually(end of 2008)... see here.
http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=54500&highlight=ethanol

From further reading that I didn't bother to post, it should make pretty much no difference performance wise, ethanol burns more slowly, has a raises the octane rating a bit, but not enough for it to make any noticable difference, basically it'll make bugger all difference, barring slightly less emissions.

[Mr Revhead]

I was told that the ethanol based fuels were more likely to fall out of suspension in vehicles with long inlet manifold runners.

that will only affect carburetter cars.
if true.

[strx7]

I was told that the ethanol based fuels were more likely to fall out of suspension in vehicles with long inlet manifold runners.

I guess it'll fall outta my suspension then...

[Mr Revhead]

new type of catch can needed?

[Ae92typeX]

Areas of Aus have been running similar for some time now havent they?

[strap-on]

10 percent wont have too much adverse effect, ethanol just acts like higher octane fuel so they will just make it a 98 octane equivalent. I know that the ethanol needs to be 200 proof or its bad joo-joo when you run it with petrol but I am sure gull will be making sure of that.

[diss7]

We're running it (the aussie stuff) in both of our cars. Both owners manuals say its ok.

For a day to day shitter I think its fine. Its a few cents cheaper then regular 91, which is one of the main reason I buy it. !

There is some resistance to it, as you'd expect, but I use it, get 98 octane performance at a cheaper than 91octane price, and its covered by the cars factory warranty.

[cynakyl]

I just saw this on the news but im sure they said it was only 90 RON not 98...

[cynakyl]

ok just read gulls website and it does say 98 on there... Maybe someone should be a guinea pig and see how it goes in a turbo car... maybe try it on a dyno with normal 98 and with this stuff to see if there is any difference....

[Grrrrrrr!]

Just be aware that you will burn slightly more fuel running on bioethanol, it doesn't make as much power as 'dino' juice per litre so you need to burn slightly more to make the same power. Since there is only 10% in the mix its not going to be a big difference

Anything injected running the standard computer that uses an Exhaust O2 sensor should be able to retune to keep the mixtures right, but if you are running an aftermarket ecu with fixed maps (no-closed loop mode) your engine will be running slightly leaner on this stuff (probably nothing to worry about for 90% of you, but if your tune is borderline you might want to avoid it).

[A.D.D.]

Hmmm, well this all sounds different to what the Toyota Racing Series is claiming, because they are shifting to biofuels (like what is run in standard cars).

The benefits they said were:
*more power
*cooler running engines (if I remember rightly)

There was no mention of any disadvantages in the article I saw. I really hope that it's not my memory with a problem

[B1NZ]

What will the pricing be like? Will we pay for cleaner fuel, or will it be the same as their current 95 or BP/mobil 98?

[fuel]

I heard on the news that it's a general no no to run it in Japanese imports, with the exception of the recent Hondas. Euro and US cars will be fine though as they have had biofuel available for a while (decades in the case of the US).

Apparently it's a bit more corrosive to the fuel lines etc

[Grrrrrrr!]

Hmmm, well this all sounds different to what the Toyota Racing Series is claiming, because they are shifting to biofuels (like what is run in standard cars).

The benefits they said were:
*more power
*cooler running engines (if I remember rightly)

There was no mention of any disadvantages in the article I saw. I really hope that it's not my memory with a problem

There are no disadvantages in terms of power once your retune your engine for it. You use more gas, but thats not really an issue in sprint races. And racecars dont have gas in the tank long enough to have to worry about water contamination either

[GTTpower]

Nicked from pcar forums
This came from the australian federal chamber of commerce in 2004. www.abc.net.au/brisbane/stories/s1466787.htm

CARS:

Holden All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10 except as listed below. The following models which do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel: Apollo (1/87-7/89), Nova (2/89-7/94), Barina (1985-1994), Drover (1985-1987), Scurry (1985-1986), Astra (1984-1989).

Ford All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10 except as listed below. The following models may not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel because of drivability concerns: Focus (All), F-series (1986-1992), Ka (All), Maverick (1988-1993), Mondeo (All), Transit (1996 onwards). The following models do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel: Capri (1989-1994), Courier (All), Econovan (pre-2002), Festiva (1991-1999), Laser 1.3L & 1.5L (1980-1989), Laser 1.6L (1989-2002), Raider (All), Telstar (All).

Mitsubishi All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10. Mitsubishi vehicles with carburettor fuel systems built before 1991 may experience hot fuel handling concerns and may experience a lower level of durability in some fuel system components.

Toyota All Toyota models manufactured locally or imported by Toyota Australia since 1987 will operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel except as listed below. The following models will not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel due to material compatibility issues: Camry with carburettor engines pre July 1989 and Corolla pre July 1994. Supra - pre May 1993, Cressida - pre Feb 1993, Paseo - pre Aug 1995, Starlet - pre July 1999. Land Cruiser - pre Aug 1992, Coaster - pre Jan 1993, Dyna - pre May 1995, Tarago - pre Oct 1996, Hilux , Hiace, & 4 Runner - pre Aug 1997, Townace - pre Dec 1998.

Alfa Romeo All Alfa Romeo vehicles imported since 1998 must run on minimum 95 RON fuel (premium unleaded petrol). Post 1998 Alfa Romeo vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E5 ethanol blended petrol (European Standard EN 228). E10 ethanol blended petrol is not recommended as there are material compatibility and drivability issues. E10 may be used in emergency situations. E10 ethanol blended petrol is not recommended for earlier model Alfa Romeo vehicles due to material compatibility issues.

Audi All current Audi vehicles must run on minimum 95 RON fuel (premium unleaded petrol). All Audi vehicle models since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10 except as listed below: Audi A3 1.8L (Engine Code 'APG' 2000 onwards) and A4 2.0L (Engine Code 'ALT' 2001 onwards) will operate satisfactorily on E5 ethanol blended petrol (European Standard EN 228). However, E10 ethanol blended petrol is not recommended for these vehicle models as there are material compatibility and drivability issues. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Bentley All petrol engine vehicles since 1990 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

BMW All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Citroen All Citroen vehicles are required to run on minimum 95 RON fuel (premium unleaded petrol). Citroen vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E5 blended petrol (European Standard EN 228). However, E10 blended petrol is not recommended because of drivability and/or material compatibility issues. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Chrysler All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Daewoo GMDaewoo does not recommend the use of ethanol blended petrol.

Daihatsu Use of E10 in any Daihatsu model vehicles is not recommended because of material incompatibility.

Honda All Honda vehicles should use the fuel recommended in the Owner's Manual. The following models will operate satisfactorily on E10: Insight - 2004 onwards; Civic range (including Civic Hybrid) - 2004 onwards; S2000 - 2004 onwards; CRV - 2003 onwards; MD-X - 2003 onwards; Accord & Accord Euro - 2003 onwards. Honda does not recommend E10 for other vehicle models because there may be drivability issues.

Hyundai Hyundai vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10, but if engine drivability concerns occur revert back to 100% unleaded petrol.

Ferrari Ferrari does not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Jaguar All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Kia All petrol engined vehicles since 1996 willoperate satisfactorily on E10 but if engine driveability concerns occur revert back to 100% unleaded petrol. Please refer to Owner' s Manual for further details.

Land Rover All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Lexus All models will operate satisfactorily on E10 except for the model listed below: The following model will not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel: IS200 - pre May 2002.

Maserati Maserati does not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Mazda Mazda 323 1.8L (1994 onwards), Mazda 323 2.0L (2001 onwards), Mazda2 (11/02 onwards), Mazda3 (All), Premacy (5/02 onwards), Mazda6 (8/02 onwards), 800M and Millenia (8/98 onwards), RX-8 (7/03 onwards), MPV (8/99 onwards), Tribute (All) and E-series (2002 fuel injected models onwards) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10. All other models not listed above do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Mercedes-Benz All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

MG MGF (2000 onwards), MG ZT (2002 onward) and MG TF (2002 onward) vehicles may operate satisfactorily on E10. However, use of E10 may affect engine calibration and emissions. MGF (pre-2000) does not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Nissan Nissan vehicles manufactured from 1 January 2004 onwards are capable of operation on ethanol-blended fuels up to E10 (10% ethanol), providing that blending of the ethanol component to the petroleum component of the fuel has been properly made at the fuel refinery (ie there is no "splash-blending" of the fuel). For Nissan vehicles manufactured prior to 1 January 2004, Nissan Australia does not recommend the use of E10 because of drivability concerns and/or material compatibility issues.

Peugeot All Peugeot vehicles are required to run on minimum 95 RON fuel (premium unleaded petrol). Peugeot vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E5 blended petrol (European Standard EN 228). However, E10 blended petrol is not recommended because of drivability and/or material compatibility issues. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Proton All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Rover Rover 75 (2001 onwards) vehicles may operate satisfactorily on E10. However, use of E10 may affect engine calibration and emissions.

Renault All petrol engine vehicles since 2001 will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Renault does not recommend its use

Rolls Royce All petrol engine vehicles since 1990 until 2002 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Saab All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Subaru Subaru Liberty B4 (all year models) and Impreza WRX STI (1999 and 2000) do not operate satisfactorily on E10. All other since MY1990 petrol engine Subaru vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Suzuki Suzuki Alto, Mighty Boy, Wagon R+, Swift/Cino, Ignis Sport (1.5 litre requires 98RON), Sierra, Stockman, Vitara, X-90, Jimny (SOHC) and Super Carry vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10. Suzuki Baleno and Baleno GTX will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Suzuki does not recommend its use in these vehicles. Ignis (1.3 litre), Liana, Grand Vitara/XL-7, Jimny (DOHC) and Carry (1.3 litre) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Volkswagen All Volkswagen vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10, but Volkswagen does not recommend it.

Volvo All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

[Mr Revhead]

it does seem that jap imports dont like it much.....

how long before we see a rash of car fires?

[flygt4]

i thought youd be used to that rash by now warwick