Driver licencing must change?

[Boosted_162]

Prodrive is good... but then as another course tutor I'm biased!

To me bad drivers seem to fall into one of two categories:
1. Ability - this covers the people that you see who have trouble controlling the car, mix up the lefts with the rights, don't see the car coming out of the intersection etc etc. I think this is actually quite a small percentage but this is the group that would be assisted by requiring more lessons for the driving test.

2. Attitude - this is by far the larger group, who know how to control a car (sometimes at high speeds) but cause carnage. This is for a number of reasons... driving outside their skill range, driving too fast for the conditions, drinking and driving, showing off to their mates etc etc. Improved driver training requirements won't fix this group, denying them a licence until they grow up will (and taking the licence away from those who already have it but act like idiots).

Think about it. The kid in Hawkes Bay who died after fleeing the cops? He probably knew how to control a car at the speed limit but choosing to drive that road at 180km/h to get away from the cops indicate an attitude problem. If he had just stopped he would still be alive. Street racers who wipe out? Same thing. Teen with car load of mates doing 120km/h in the rain and sliding into a power-pole? Poor decision-making skills and stupidity. BMW-driving executive who overtakes on yellow lines and kills a family coming the other way from colliding head-on, just because he wanted to save 30 seconds from his trip by passing a car NOW? Ban him for life. I've been competing in ClubSport events for 16 years now (and was club champ last year) so I like to think I know how to control a car... in the 13 years I've had my road licence I've had one solitary crash - last year, at 10km/h, because I was tired and was driving on auto-pilot instead of concentrating on the traffic around me.

The funniest thing with Prodrive is getting 2 macho boy-racer dudes into a car with a little lady and then finding that the little lady comprehensively hoses them in the driving skill tests - the hit on the ego they take is a wonder to behold! Prodrive is a very good course for teaching students skills that will help them avoid accidents in cars but I like to think the biggest thing it gives the participents is a greater respect for cars and an understanding that when a car bites it bites hard (usually the first time they have ever been in an "out of control" car is in Prodrive, a much safer environment to discover what happens that at 100km/h).

To me an advanced driving skills course (like trackdays) would be bad news as it would only give new drivers an over-inflated sense of confidence which could lead to them doing something stupid. Much better to teach people how to avoid a potential accident in the first place with skills like the vision zones practical in Prodrive. I actually found the Defensive Driving course very useful, not because I learned anything but because it made me aware of techniques for avoiding accidents that I subconciously knew already.

The best accident is one that never happens and the best way for that to happen is to drive sensibly and defensively so that the situation never arises.

And talking of Prodrive... if you are a student on the North Shore or Waitakeres and haven't signed up for Prodrive do so now! It is currently operating out of Hobsonville (until the end of Oct) and, if you are really unlucky, you might even get me as a tutor

(sorry for the rambling rant... it is a pet topic of mine and I've had plenty of thoughts on the subject in the last 13 years!)

Do you drive your own car in it? I'd love to do something like this, even tho i feel confident driving i know theres alot more i can learn! Plus its fun doing stuff like that legally

[Cahuna]

Do you drive your own car in it? I'd love to do something like this, even tho i feel confident driving i know theres alot more i can learn! Plus its fun doing stuff like that legally

Nup, cars are provided (Toyota Echos).

Prodrive is the country's only free, practical driver training programme. The entire programme is made possible by its sponsors like Toyota NZ, Beaurepaires, Car Haulaways, Lion Foundation and MotorSport NZ (and plenty of others). Any high-school student who wishes to participate can do so free-of-charge when it visits their school. More info at http://www.prodrive.org.nz

[AE86less]

That website looked interesting. How do i go about signing up? It's kinda funny, i used to row for school at the Hobsonville airbase and i always looked at the runways and thought it would be great for driving on, the topic even came up at mr2oc and i suggested it there .

[Mr Revhead]

usually the first time they have ever been in an "out of control" car is in Prodrive

im just going to highlight that for emphasis.....

if you learn to drive by the basic approved methods.
the first time you experience loss of control, a slide, a lock up etc. well be on the road. in public. where death and/or injury is more than a slight chance...

does anyone else find that incredibly stupid??

i count my self lucky that i got to drive mates cars around paddocks (and city dumps thanks matt) before i drove on the road.
looking back, i KNOW that saved be from at the very least some major embarrasment and large repair bills.

[Mr Revhead]

oh, and this isnt a poll, so i moved it to general

[no_8wire]

And talking of Prodrive... if you are a student on the North Shore or Waitakeres and haven't signed up for Prodrive do so now! It is currently operating out of Hobsonville (until the end of Oct) and, if you are really unlucky, you might even get me as a tutor

Anyway non students can attend?

[Cahuna]

From the FAQ:

Q) I don't go to school anymore, can members of the general public do a prodrive course?

Answer) YES, school students are given the priority but many adults have completed our course, just contact one of our coordinators and they will schedule you into a course. While we won’t charge you a fee (all college students get to undertake the programme free) we do request a donation to help offset our basic costs which currently equate to approximately $60.00 per student.

The co-ordinator for the Northern area is James Hancock, his details are on the Contacts page of the site.

[flygt4]

i say they should have a thorough psychological test for all driver license applicants , resulting in a ranking system that designates the type of vehicles you are and arent allowed to drive.

people who show to be susceptible to peer pressure, prone to taking uncalculated risks, not bothered by cosequences, or who fail to understand basic cause and effect principles should be confined to gutless shitboxes or forced to undertake the kinds of course previously mentioned and a retest before being allowed anything more powerful.

[sergei]

I guess this thread is good place to rant about plonkers on the road. Here is the list of the stereotypes ignorant idiots behind the wheel (not in any particular order):

Idiot who merges from on-ramp into motorway at 50kph (don't they realise if there is a truck going 90kph in left lane the truck driving will have hard time not ramming them off the road?). Usually committed by oldies, asians and sometimes soccer mums in remuera tractors.

Idiot who goes 70kph in right lane on motorway with plenty space in front and left lane is doing similar speed. Usually committed by oldies and asians.

Idiot who cycles through full throttle/hard braking in bumper to bumper traffic, usually is automatic transmission driver. Most common culprits are fat cats in holdens/fords.

Idiot who is stuck to someones bumper, no matter what speed it is doing.
You will find that this sort of driver does not have a stereo type, it could be done by "normals" (due to oblivious attitude towards speed), fat cats, boyracers, soccer mums (again, have no idea what speed is). It is highly ulikely to find an oldie who would be driving like that (probably because 50cc scooters drive faster than them). Usually when you are in their car and question them about their driving habbits, they respond in manner to similar to this "My reaction is very good and/or my brakes are better than on the car infornt

3/4 Idiots, very common on Harbour bridge. Yes, by 3/4 I mean inconfident dumb ass, who is scared to drive close to barrier, so he/she/it drives 3/4 on his/her/its lane and 1/4 on the lane next to. Asians and oldies are the msot common culprits.

Jerky-drive-like-drunk. Pretty self explanatory. Usually committed by "mobile call centre operators".

Sudden lane change without indications, either committed by jerky-drive-like drunks or boyracers who decided to get a fix for adrenaline or show off to an uninterested common folk. Occasionally committed by soccer mums who remembered that she forgot to pick up a kid from school.

"I wanna race you bro" type, well can't you see that I am not even looking at you, find some one else to race you wrx/gsr/20v/SOHC VTEC. Instead he just revs and jerks like idiot (well he is an idiot).

"This place is good as any" type that decides that it is a good idea to stop on the round about, and read the map. Also they tend to stop on the "Turn left at any time" lanes, thinking that this is a give way situation. I find that asians are the most common drivers to do that. Unless it is a shitty cordia that broke down.

Driveway hoppers - who jump blindly out of driveway, thinking that whoever is driving will avoid them as they have bigger or more expensive cars. This is typical of soccer mums.

"I have a delivery to make" type who think that it is ok to cut off and not to give way to people, usually couriers and taxi drivers.

Indecisive type that indicates for 3 minutes and then decides to abort. Asians and oldies are common culprits.

Horn abusers - this type of people are trigger happy (or should I say horn happy), they tend to horn after 50miliseconds after green light is on and the car in front "failed to launch". Could be anyone except asians and oldies.

Procrastinating type - these people actually deserved to abused by horn abusers - they tend start going just before light turns orange, obviosly $&#$% up everyone else day. These are the same sort of indecisive type. Unless it is a male of any steretype that was looking at jumping boobies across the road which happened to be on a female jogger.

Red lighter - self explanatory - usually soccer mum that is late to do shopping.

The folk that think if there is a passing lane it is ok to speed up from 60kph to 110kph in left lane and forcing traffic behind to break the law and overtake the bastard. Lets blame the oldies for this one, although the fellow in a 2.4 diesel surf with cracked head also could be blamed for this behaviour (and lung cancer from fumes).

Cop-o-phobic type - slow down to equal or slightly less speed of the cruising cop, or slow down to crawl just because there is a cop on the side of the road. Unfortunately I cannot associate this one to any of the stereotypes. TUsually these dumbasses create massive traffic as result of their action.

17year old boyracers in old datsuns/rx7/FXGT doing stupid shit like skids, hand brake turns, cruising in 1st gear at 40kph, revving the shit out of their shit boxes on the lights, going 100kph with all the windows down and warehouse stereo blasting while yelling some random shit at passer by, some times chucking bottles.

The jackasses on the bikes cutting through traffic at 100kph, some times taking off a few mirrors with handle bars, thinking they own the road.

Well that is about it (although I could probably come up with some more but you get the idea).

My biggest problem is how to deal properly with each type.
I ignore boyracers, with tailgaters I usually change lane (if possible) or use my window washer - mist on their windscreen makes them rethink their following distance. With 3/4s usually long beep helps...
All of these types are there, and will be there, but it is possible to cut down in numbers, with proper driving training and test focused more on drivers ability then road code (which is important but could be tested for on theory test anyway). Part of the getting licence should be 'advance' driver training - where they teach you basics on how to get out of sticky situations and training on how to deal with road rage will also help a lot...

[Mr Revhead]

Idiot who goes 70kph in right lane on motorway with plenty space in front and left lane is doing similar speed. Usually committed by oldies and asians.

blame that on the government ramming the speed kills message down everyones throat.....

[2jayzgte]

Bad drivers well I reckon your a bad driver if you repetitively do the same things wrong time after time ie big accident or if its mindless lane changing regardless what it is if you don't learn from your mistakes your a bad driver.

Secondly I was in a high speed accident and thought I was a better driver than what I really was or RAN OUT OF ABILITY so Garth Tander would say,I love that quote by the way.Then I decided to do as many Track Skills or Defensive Driving courses as I could to up skill myself and for me it has worked a treat I have found new levels of driving skills and feel alot more confident behind the wheel and can push my car to alot higher limit than before.

With all these accidents and with ease of getting a license basicaly in my opinion 15 is to young its like your giving a kid a loaded gun and they don't dish out firearms license's at 15.

[rollaholic]

With all these accidents and with ease of getting a license basicaly in my opinion 15 is to young its like your giving a kid a loaded gun and they don't dish out firearms license's at 15.

this is a comparison thats always struck me too - maybe if people realised cars can be just as deadly, if not more so, than a gun they might treat them with a bit more respect. i never got why killing someone with your car warranted a lesser charge than if you shot them with a gun.

perhaps the requirements for a drivers licence should be similar to a gun licence?

[Mad Murphy]

Oh can't forget people who don't understand the who gets the right of way with a right turn at an uncontrolled intersection. c**ts who don't give way to me get a big one fingered salute/waved fist and a nice long honk. Road rules aren't hard, it's not my fault people are too thick to remember simple give way rules.

Stop sign runners are morons too, there's always a cop sitting by a dangerous uncontrolled crossing near my house and I always see him pulling over morons who charge straight over. Don't the flowers sitting by the crossing sign make people think at all? I really don't wanna be the one who stumbles across the next car that gets cleaned up there. I missed getting cleaned up once when I was younger by someone who drove through a stop sign at well over 100, that was seriously scary, I'd ban people like that for driving for life and castrate them so they can't breed more dipf**ks.

I drive along a back road every day on my way to town and just about every day I get passed by people who by my estimate would be doing 150kph+, it's a narrow country road with broken edges an in all weather and at night. I often honk and and flash them too. Amazingly this is another road constantly patrolled by cops and I often see people pulled over. On the other side of the coin there's Mr. and Miss 75kph, the driver who never speeds up or slows down no matter what the signs say. Often seen not paying much attention, driving along the centre line making passing impossible on narrow roads and only indicating after they're half way round the corner.

Another one sergei forgot was Mr. Doesn't-Wait-His-Turn-to-Overtake. Usually driving his V8 "Supercar" He'll pull out and hoon past you even if you're indicating to make your passing move on the car infront. This is the kinda guy who starts his move before the passing lane, coming up to a blind corner/rise or at the end of the passing lane cutting you off from merging.

Nearly 3 years of having to drive to town and back every day (I didn't really drive to town much till I went to Polytech) have made me realise just how dangerous driving is and how many morons are out there. I'm just amazed that the road toll isn't in the thousands the way people drive. Generally I find younger people the nicest drivers who signal their actions best (obviously excluding boyracer tawts), men generally let you out of side streets more often too.

[AE86less]

"I have a delivery to make" type who think that it is ok to cut off and not to give way to people, usually couriers and taxi drivers.

I'm sorry to say i let myself slip into this category when i have pizzas getting cold on the passenger's seat . I don't actually force myself into the traffic but i go for smaller gaps than i normally would etc.

The two that annoy me the most are the 3/4 drivers that sergei mentioned and the "brake then indicate types": Slow right down and only then indicate that they are taking the side street so you can pass them.

The other group i hate are the "Hat wearers". It's weird, but if you pull up at a two lane traffic light and there is a guy driving with a hat on and a guy driving without, about 85% of the time the no-hatter will take off faster. EDIT: it is also worth mentioning that about 70% of hat wearers are also oldies

[sergei]

It seems to me that I missed quiet a few stereotypes
Does anyone else thinks that it is pointless to have any head wear on while inside of the car? Unless you are driving convertible - then hat is perfectly fine, so is the man bag and man make up.

[79rolla]

haha one of the ones i hate are the ones that drive into town and take there foot off the gass to slow down... then forget to put it back on and you end up folowing them at 20k through town
and th people with niceish cars who on windyish back roads who exculerate up the straights the proseed to slow right down round the corners (expeachaly when you have no power like me and rely on retaining speed round corners to get up the hills) and you can never get around them!!!
but thats me

[Stealer Of Souls]

I really just wanna know when the rules changed and became...

Orange Light = Go UNLESS it is NOT safe to do so...

[Distrb]

Nice list sergei!

one i think you could add to the merging onto the motorway group is the ones who either stop at the end of the merging lane, or the very beginning and wait for a gap...

[Al]

With all these accidents and with ease of getting a license basicaly in my opinion 15 is to young its like your giving a kid a loaded gun and they don't dish out firearms license's at 15.

Yeah I had to wait till 16 till I had firearms licence

[pc]

With all these accidents and with ease of getting a license basicaly in my opinion 15 is to young its like your giving a kid a loaded gun and they don't dish out firearms license's at 15.

Yeah I had to wait till 16 till I had firearms licence

If car licences were treated a bit more like firearms licences then maybe we wouldn't have the same number of problems.
Car licences are treated as a right and therefore anyone can get one.