FORMULA ONE!!!

[fivebob]

Ron got Briatiore to sign a confession to using secret McLaren data.
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/ ... 4203.shtml

That happened last week, and has nothing to do with today's proceedings. It's a future matter for the FIA to consider...Wonder if they will fine Renault $US100m

[Mr Revhead]

what? the FIA fine a french team a record amount?
of course they will!

[fivebob]

what? the FIA fine a french team a record amount?
of course they will!

Naturally, what else would you expect from such an unbiased and fair organisation. Mad Max has an issue with Ron Dennis and that never came into play in this action, so they should be equally fair and punish Renault the same way.... Insert Tui Ad here

[rolla_fxgt]

If Max Mosely is disliked by so many, how come he hasn't had "an accident" by now? or is that pobally what ron dennis is planning right now?

But shame on FIA, if they want to clen up F1 theres 3 options: Option A Kick out Ferrari ( the biggest cheats in the game from what i inderstand). Option B Make F1 ferrari only single make series & thus only ferrari can cheat. Option C Have no rules in F1 other than it must have 4 wheels & a single engine.

[2jayzgte]

For me I ask myself the question when there in a game where 100s of millions of $$$ are spent and you find the head designer of your chief rival with a 800 odd page document containing technical data of your chief rival and get caught with this info and you think there's nothing wrong well your on drugs and for me this is the key issue what is the head designer of Mclaren doing with this info.

Now I realise we all don't no the full story here but for me this is the key point in this whole mess.Alot has been said of how Ferrari are moaning but surely if the shoe was on the other foot Mclaren would be doing the same thing.

[Mr Revhead]

the problem i have with that, is so far there is no proof thay anyone else at mclaren knew about that info, or used it.

its like my boss taking a months pay off me because i iv got a honda t shirt at home (not that i do!)

im hanging out for the FIAs release of their findings

[2jayzgte]

the problem i have with that, is so far there is no proof thay anyone else at mclaren knew about that info, or used it.

its like my boss taking a months pay off me because i iv got a honda t shirt at home (not that i do!)

im hanging out for the FIAs release of their findings

Revvy go to f1.com Mclaren are dead in the water my friend.

Some of the tech info passed from Stepney to Coughlan was such things as Ferrari's weight distribution,braking systems,flexi rear wings and other such technical data.Also apparently Coughlan did not act alone apparently pedro de la rosa and fernando alonso were privvy to this info as well.Also it has been implied that Stepney was giving Coughlan real time pit stratergy info at this years Aussie GP.Its damning this evidence and I can't see how Mclaren are getting out of this one.Also Ron Dennis has said that Coughlan was acting alone but this evidence suggests other wise.

[Mr Revhead]

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/17844641__WMSC_Decision_130907.pdf


have a read of that.

take note of how many times they say "suggests" or "seems likely"
and then theres this paragraph:

8.5
"the wmsc has full jurisdiction to apply article (1c) and stresses that it is not necessary for it to demonstrate that any confidential information was directly copied by mclaren or put to direct use in the mclaren car to justify a finding that articl (1c) that a penalty is merited. nor does the wmsc need to show that any information improperly held led to any specifically identidied sporting advantage, or indeed any advantage at all. rather the wmsc is entittled to treat possession of another teams information as an offence meriting a penalty on its own if it so chooses."

amongst other paragraphs, they basicly say they dont need to prove anything
it does seem as if there were some other employees in on it, but theres no proof that mclaren as a whole was in on it.... hence use of the terms "suggests" and "likely" etc. also the wmsc only supposes that the other members knew the info was obtained illegally. theres a lot of use or words like "we beleive" not "we know" ferrari use this.

however i do wonder if del a rosa and alonso will soon be looking for other employment....

if ron dennis knew all about the stuff dela rosa, alonso and coughlin were discussing, i dont think he would have been so strong in maintaining his position the last few weeks.

as i said before, i dont think this is over

[flygt4]

i really dont think the whole thing is going to help f1 in any way.
a lot of people who were borderline interested in the racing are probly just going to completely lose interest now. you hear more in the news about the scandals than about the actual racing

[fivebob]

however i do wonder if del a rosa and alonso will soon be looking for other employment....

if ron dennis knew all about the stuff dela rosa, alonso and coughlin were discussing, i dont think he would have been so strong in maintaining his position the last few weeks.

as i said before, i dont think this is over

There is a rumour going around that the FIA found out about these emails because Ron Dennis told them

Apparently to neutralise Alonso who was trying to use them to "enhance" his position within the team.

If that's true, then not only are his days a McLaren numbered, he's also unlikely to find many teams (or sponsors) that will want his services.

While it appears that the info found it's way further into McLaren than it first appeared, $100m and loss of WCC points seems a bit harsh for something that "seems likely" or "suggests". I can't see the penalty standing closer legal scrutiny, especially as no penalty was applied to Toyota and they admitted that the info was used to design their car.

I wonder what Renault's punishment will be

[fivebob]

Oh dear, looks like it is true.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6995240.stm

McLaren boss Ron Dennis revealed after the decision that he had tipped off the FIA about evidence that ultimately led to such a huge fine.

"Once I became aware that new evidence might exist, which I did on the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix (5 August), I immediately phoned the FIA to keep them informed," he said.

Hmmm, wonder why he only found out after the qualifying debacle at Hungary

And Alonso showing his class again... He must live in a fantasy world

And asked if he thought the e-mails influenced the FIA judgement, Alonso told BBC Radio 5live: "I don't think so, not at all."

[2jayzgte]

Revvy its over my friend Mclaren got caught with there hands in the cookie jar.

I mean with even there drivers involved there guilty as sin.

Ferrari maybe the biggest moaners and bleaters in F1 but they seem to have got it right this time.

Yes the fine and punishment is extreme but whats done is done now lets get on with the racing.

[fivebob]

Yes the fine and punishment is extreme but whats done is done now lets get on with the racing.

It's far from over, the fat lady hasn't even started her warm up yet

[Mr Revhead]

interesting the comments martin brundle just made on tv...

he's suprised at it all, he just said that all the data that mclaren "stole" is all stuff you can learn just by hanging aroung the paddock.

[Jdawg]

lol, you actually believe everything the ITV commentary say.
Kimi said his entire time at McLaren they were constantly spying on Ferrari.
What Stepney and Coughlan did was taking it to far. Stepney was actually giving McLaren data on race weekends, complete Ferrari setups and when they were pitting.

[2jayzgte]

I find it quite hardcase as the FIA Max Moseley in particular is already deciding how to spend the 100 mill.The bottom line is that regardless if Mclaren used the data or not Mike Coughlan should not have had this data in his possesion in the 1st place if he did not have the info there would be no drama's.As for the fine well being to extreme Max Moseley also went on to say that if they really wanted to be ruthless they could have had Mclaren banned until the end of the 2009 season.

But back to the racing all Ferrari front row I think Alonso will overtake Hamilton for the championship lead very soon..

[Mr Revhead]

i dont take all i hear as gospel, however he is only echoing comments from tother teams/news/forums etc.

its just very very weird and worrying how mclaren are being nailed..... and other teams arnt when they have come out and admitted to to similar/worse offences....

my race prediction:
both ferraris retire!

[Jdawg]

And hopefully Nico and Jarno can get a good start. Then ITV can talk about Toyotas

[fivebob]

i dont take all i hear as gospel, however he is only echoing comments from tother teams/news/forums etc.

Nothing is truly secret in motor racing e.g. Most teams know when the opposition is going to stop, it's easy to calculate from the difference in lap times from their runs on empty tanks to the runs in final qualifying.

its just very very weird and worrying how mclaren are being nailed..... and other teams arnt when they have come out and admitted to to similar/worse offences....

Mad Max's revenge for threatening to start (and nearly succeeding) a breakaway series, and payback for Ferrari for sticking with the FIA and stopping it.

my race prediction:
both ferraris retire!

And a mysterious problem in the pitstop for Alonshole that allows Hamilton to get ahead

[Cahuna]

Interesting article in today's NZ Herald (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/9/sto ... 893&pnum=0) - basically says that Alonso tried to threaten Ron Dennis at the Hungarian GP but Ron called his bluff and informed the FIA himself.

Sadly (as a Macca supporter), after reading the FIA decision I think that it is undeniable that members of the team broke the rules, even if the team as a whole neither knew of nor sanctioned it. I don't think that they were advantaged by the information (as it appears that they never used it, even if they considered doing so) but as the rules are written they should still be penalised.

I'm just glad that it is only this year and that the drivers can still fight for the championship - go Hamilton!