no spark?/no start 4agte (fixed and running!))

[flygt4]

ive managed to get the troublesome bastard to crank properly now, but it still refuses to fire up
its very very close to starting, with lots of coughing and spluttering.

setup is link ecu running standard 20v single coil/dizzy. wahlbro fuel pump and 3sgte injectors. its been sitting for 6 months with no starting.
it started perfectly before i moved house in april, drove it onto a truck, drove it off truck and into garage, 2 weeks later it wouldnt start.

i can hear the fuel pump prime when turned on, and running when cranking so im thinking its likely that side of things is ok. will confirm pressures soon when i can get hold of a gauge to check it.

i pulled off a plug lead and tested it to an earthed screwdriver while cranking, and saw no spark. i pulled off the main lead from the dizzy end and repeated, and saw no spark. so i guess its safe to assume theres no spark coming from the coil?

I checked the voltage going into the coil, and only see ~7v when cranking , very occasionally i get a 12 v spike. is this normal?

i happened to have a spare 20v coil on the shelf, so i swapped that in, and no change. I figure the chances of 2 being kackered are very slim.

im going to drain the fuel this afternoon and get some fresh stuff, although i doubt itll make much difference if theres no bang bang.

[flygt4]

turns out some spark is present, but like the coil input its inconsistent. stripped out the dizzy and rotor and cap seem fine. there seems to be an issue with the dizzy tho. getting it checked out to see if the issues lies there.

[NZ_AE86]

Put it on a tow truck to my work, it'll be going today!

[flygt4]

haha i havent reached that stage yet i know how much your work costs

i can't figure out how you got the link going with the stock toyota ignitor either, you are a right pain in the ass at this stage the dizzy doesnt appear to send consistent voltage pulses when you crank engine/spin dizzy so im going down that road.

if it doesnt turn out to be a fault i can find and is something in the wiring, you'll probly be seeing the car soon, as you know it better than anyone.

[matt dunn]

haha i havent reached that stage yet i know how much your work costs

i can't figure out how you got the link going with the stock toyota ignitor either, you are a right pain in the buttocks at this stage the dizzy doesnt appear to send consistent voltage pulses when you crank engine/spin dizzy so im going down that road.

if it doesnt turn out to be a fault i can find and is something in the wiring, you'll probly be seeing the car soon, as you know it better than anyone.

What version of link are you running as some older one's are not compatable with Toyota igniters.
Have struck that before, they only 1/2 trigger the coil and and give weak spark. you could try a cheap s/h igniter off a nissan or similar.

Also, sorting out the correct 3 pins to wire out of the 4 on the dist is a PITA too.

Have not followed your progress so far,
has it been running or is it a fesh install?

[flygt4]

haha i havent reached that stage yet i know how much your work costs

i can't figure out how you got the link going with the stock toyota ignitor either, you are a right pain in the buttocks at this stage the dizzy doesnt appear to send consistent voltage pulses when you crank engine/spin dizzy so im going down that road.

if it doesnt turn out to be a fault i can find and is something in the wiring, you'll probly be seeing the car soon, as you know it better than anyone.

What version of link are you running as some older one's are not compatable with Toyota igniters.
Have struck that before, they only 1/2 trigger the coil and and give weak spark. you could try a cheap s/h igniter off a nissan or similar.

Also, sorting out the correct 3 pins to wire out of the 4 on the dist is a PITA too.

Have not followed your progress so far,
has it been running or is it a fesh install?

hey man its an old link that has been running for years with the stock toyota ignitor and coil. the car just stopped starting after sitting for a while. NZAE86 wired it years ago for his mate for a few beers so only he knows how he did it that also explains the extra wire on the dizzy plug not in use , i was wondering about that.

have a spare ignitor and dizzy coming that do work, so will give them a go and see what happens. it appears as though the dizzy isnt sending a trigger all the time, only sometimes , which would explain the erratic spark.

[NZ_AE86]

haha i havent reached that stage yet i know how much your work costs

Although you always get what you pay for

[Crampy]

Are you cranking it just off the battery or are you using jumper leads? I'd suggest giving it a crack with jumper leads and from a car with a good strong battery with motor going. If it started a couple of weeks ago, there's no real reason why it wont start now. Make sure to use decent leads, or even one of those jump starter packs.

As for the voltage dropping while cranking, that's fine. The starter motor is drawing so much current, it causes the battery voltage to drop considerably. Another reason why I'd suggest jumpering it off a running car (14.5v better than 12v).

Oh yeah, make sure your car has good decent earthing system as well, it'll help with cranking and much better power distribution.

[matt dunn]

As for the voltage dropping while cranking, that's fine. The starter motor is drawing so much current, it causes the battery voltage to drop considerably. Another reason why I'd suggest jumpering it off a running car (14.5v better than 12v).

That reminds me,

The early link's are very voltage sensitive,
and toyota starter motors are so good,

you can have the voltage too low to run the ECU,
but the car will wind over fine.

easy way to tell this fault is crash start it, lol

[flygt4]

yeah id love to crash start but i have downward sloping driveway and i wouldnt get it back in after if i fail

am starting without jumper leads, terminals directly connected to one of 2 fresh batteries, one out of my other car that has been decently cycled. unfortunately i backed it into my garage so i cant hook another running car onto it.

-have already run extras earths, and cleaned rust off all main earth points.

-have had starter motor rebuilt

-have tried a spare ignitor, with decent earth

-have tried 2x spare coils, with decent earth

-dizzycap+rotor less than 12 months old and still look new, with correct air gap in the dizzy

with a spark tester on it and winding it over, it shows spark for 3-4 cranks, then it stops and is intermittent.

-have removed dizzy and checked for triggers, which can be hard to see on a meter, but they appear to be intermittent, traced trigger wires to ecu, definately had continuity , could see one of the triggers clearly at the ecu on a meter, but one was a bit vague.

trueno-turbo has been helping this last week with some fault finding and has a spare dizzy at his work, so when he can get out here with that we'll try that out.

only 2 options i can see remaining at this point are faulty dizzy, or faulty link.

[Crucible]

That reminds me,

The early link's are very voltage sensitive,
and toyota starter motors are so good,

you can have the voltage too low to run the ECU,
but the car will wind over fine.

easy way to tell this fault is crash start it, lol

definately a weird one.
have both triggers at the ecu from dist. we have continuity from coil neg circuit to ignitor. Earthed coil neg with sc/driver at ignitor end and had continuous spark.

uncertain if the pulse output is strong enough on one of the triggers, I think its because its the sync trigger wheel only having one blade, but were just gonna chuck another dissy in it to rule that out.

all that leaves is pulse from ecu to ignitor, I may pull the Link ignitor out of mine just incase there is a problem with the Toyota one.

- what voltage should we expect to see when cranking at the link?
- also can I use use my Link dual channel ignitor on one channel, to switch as a temp setup, to see if we get spark do you think?

[matt dunn]

if you have a link hand remote, plug it in and they default come up showing RPM.

Change it so it is on another screen, and try to start the car.

If it goes back to RPM, there is not enough voltage and the ECU is shutting down and restarting.
As for voltage with a volt meter, not 100% sure. At least 9v at the ecu, but should be close to 10 I guess.


Not sutre what you mean by
Earthed coil neg with sc/driver at ignitor end and had continuous spark.

if you are gettimg good spark out of the coil, at the coil, but not at the plugs, look for shorted or tracking rotor to earth or cap/rotor gap fault?

[flygt4]

he means we earthed the ignitor negative with a screwdriver/lugged cable at the ignitor end to rule out a bad ignitor earth

we arent getting good consistent spark out of the coil on cranking, so the high voltage side isnt as issue. the problem has got to be be between the distributor triggers and the coil.

Ive hit the links voltage sensitivity before, last time i left it sitting for a while. i found when it drops below 10v it starts acting strange and refusing to start. i have tried two different batterys with this, one fresh from a charger and one straight out of my caldina. havent yet tried off another running car due to it not being practical.

so far we've ruled out
-ignitor and earth
-coil and earth
-dizzy cap+rotor and air gap
-bad earths
-starter motor

still in question
-battery voltage to ECU
-dizzy triggers
-ECU fault

[Caveman]

Just throwing this in the mix, is your alarm imobiliser intercepting any of the spark signals? Faulty alarm maybe?

[NZ_AE86]

We do callouts.......

[flygt4]

Just throwing this in the mix, is your alarm imobiliser intercepting any of the spark signals? Faulty alarm maybe?

nope i ripped out the alarm when it shat itself at a gas station in the middle of the night also removed the turbo timer. ignition loom is essentially as standard now.

i will double check to make sure i didnt miss an immobiliser but i doubt it, seeing as ive had some spark.

[flygt4]

We do callouts.......

i thought you had changed trades and were working as a builder?

not that desperate just yet...

im sure you probly know what it is too

[NZ_AE86]

We do callouts.......

i thought you had changed trades and were working as a builder?

not that desperate just yet...

im sure you probly know what it is too

Building for a while but did not get what I was promised money/apprenticeship so back at what I do best!

[flygt4]

spark sorted. swapped in another distributor and now have consistant spark. it seems the old dizzy wasnt triggering correctly.

next issue - its seriously flooded, and the plugs are seriously fouled, and the fuel is old and crap. it won't even start with engine start sprayed into the intake.
trueno-turbo has popped down to his workshop to get a sparkplug socket so we can removed the plugs and clean them up, and hopefully get it going

[flygt4]

cleaned plugs thoroughly, new fuel , a minor engine fire that narrowly missed the fuel return , and its started and running perfectly with minor timing adjustment

my neighbours must hate me now