Fuelstar

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Postby fivebob » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:39 am

Mr Revhead wrote:one of those ones with the small print "less handling and p&p"
which prob equals $500 :lol:

Yes, or the 100% restocking fee ;)

Here's a good article debunking the use of this and other "catalyst" fuel saving products http://www.fuelsaving.info/catalysts.htm and one debunking fuel saving product in general http://www.fuelsaving.info/catalysts.htm

They make a very important poing namely
A typical claim is that the combustion with the device fitted is somehow "better" or "more complete". There is never however any detail as to what is meant by this. And it is a firmly established engineering fact that, on any reasonably modern engine under normal operating conditions, the burn is already at least 98% complete. The unburnt fuel in the exhaust (even before the cat) represents 1 or 2% at most of the input fuel. If you factor in the energy in the CO emissions, the figure still only rises to 3% maximum. So even if the fuel "saving" device could totally eliminate unburnt fuel and CO in the exhaust, and give an absolutely 100% complete burn, you would only save 3% of fuel. Claims that 10%, 20% or even more of the fuel is not burnt and escapes into the exhaust are entirely false - the unburnt fuel figure is higher when the engine is stone-cold, and at high load and speed conditions, but since the engine only spends a small fraction of its time under these conditions their contribution to overall fuel consumption is small.


and
The other reason why these devices can't work is simple business. Fuel consumption is a very hot topic in the European car industry at the moment, because it is directly related to carbon dioxide, which is a "greenhouse gas". Consumers and legislators are demanding ever-better fuel consumption from new cars. The industry is investing literally billions of pounds on more efficient engines, for example diesels (and we wouldn't do that if we were in the pay of oil companies, would we?) But these more efficient engines are also much more expensive to make - for example a diesel will produce about 15 - 20% less carbon dioxide, but adds about £500 - £1000 to the cost of a car. These "fuel saving devices" claim nearly as much benefit for a tenth of the cost - the car industry would not only sell its grandmother for this kind of saving, but sacrifice its first-born son too!


Enough said... time for somebody to prove that these things actually work. Hard facts, not regurgitated BS from their websites and claims about money back guarantees which mean nothing :roll:
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Postby Stealer Of Souls » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:31 pm

fivebob wrote:
Stealer Of Souls wrote:http://www.mng.org.uk/green_house/renewable_energy/metal_NS_article.htm
^^^^^^^
How metal particles could be used as a combustion fuel in an engine...
Read it...
This will give the basic premise for how the fuelstar product probably works.
Then comment.
I'm no BSC Chem major, but that article made sense to me.

It may make sense, but it has nothing to do with how Fuelstar is supposed to work. It's all about using powdered metals as a fuel source, and the quantities required would exhaust this device in a very short time.
I think the term catalyst is poorly misused in this case. Based upon the info in that article, and the description of how the fuelstar supposedly works then it would be more likely (to me) that the tin particles released by the fuelstar aren't catalysing 5/8ths of anything, instead they are burning during the combustion process, and are accelerating and maintaining the flame front. And it's this improved rate of combustion that is giving the benefits.
As for the supposed ability to run lower octane... Perhaps the tin particles are doing the opposite sort of thing... During the stroke the particles are absorbing some of the heat generated, similar to water injection. I guess if they got hot enough they too would cause pre-ignition, hence why it would work for some engines, but not others.

I can't get away from the feeling that if it does work, it would not last as long as they reckon it will, and that it will probably have a detrimental effect on fuel filters...
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Postby pidge » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:41 pm

Before speculating on how the Fuelstar improves fuel consumption, how about confirming that the claim is true?

Given that fuel consumption can vary by more that 20% depending on how a car is driven (i.e. continuous open road vs start-stop city traffic), reliably verifying the claim would require something like an extended engine dyno run with a known or fixed load on the engine, with and without the Fuelstar.
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Postby GorGasm » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:57 pm

I quickly glanced at the periodic table.
The table is grouped together with elements exhibiting similar properties being next to each other.
Now can you take a wild stab in the dark and guess what element is right below tin? Thats right, good old lead. Perhaps its not relevant as they should exhibit different tendancies, but its an interesting observation.

Anywho, its a load of crap.
If such a device did promote that sort of power gain and or efficiency gain then its use would be widespread. Not only would car manufacturers have installed these in all their vehicles but motorsport teams would run them. People chasing monster horsepower for their drag beasts would run them.
Logistics carriers would all have them etc etc etc.
It would basically be on everything.
If you think cost would shy manufacturers away then you are smoking some wicked crack, this would cost nothing to a major manufacturer to implement.
They dont however, because it doesnt work.
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Postby solitaire » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:07 pm

Can i reopen this please gents...

just read this... http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/9/story.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10499823 - seems like they are proving it here or do you think some idiot herald motoring columist (who frequently gets technical stuff wrong) is on the bandwagon?
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Postby IH8TEC » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:39 pm

you may, i red article in the papaer at work, and he said how on the wrx once installing the fuel star thingy the turbo started working again withing 10kmh, cause it hadn't in 100,000kms, apparently it free'd up the wastegate :roll:

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Postby barryogen » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:55 pm

If something sounds too good to be true, it normally is...

I stick to that saying whenever I read shit like this on the net, in mags, or otherwise.
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Postby barryogen » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:05 pm

I've flicked them an email asking for some info on the guarantee for their product...

6-9% more HP, 12-15% less fuel... sounds like it's providing restriction on the fuel line leaning it out... doing that would probably also give you the claimed drop in emmisions...

I don't like it though... it still smells of BS.
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Postby xsspeed » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:07 pm

pretty much sounds like the old fuel chip that i've been waving my arms about thats being sold on TM
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Postby Leon » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:08 pm

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Postby escortman » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:11 pm

haha yeh i read the articale bwt it in the herald 2
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Postby AE82 FXGT » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:20 pm

Graham Savage, senior lecturer in mechanical engineering at Waiariki Institute of Technology, said tin had lubricant properties and it obviously freed up the turbo waste gate.


OMG, of course it was so obvious...

Being a senior lecturer - "wheres the carb? wait a gosh darn minute, this thingy here injects fuel?"
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Postby fivebob » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:44 pm

It's an advertorial, no real news story would spruke the product by giving out the 0800 number and website, they'd make them pay for a seperate advert to do that.
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Postby xsspeed » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:02 pm

in the paper though its presented as an article with the "super wheels" logo on the top, none of the classified pages has it.

damn got beaten to the lead and tin connection, good old periodic table.

kinda have to ask what happens to the tin particles? isnt that why leaded petrol got phased out? 8O
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Postby rollaholic » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:18 am

xsspeed wrote:kinda have to ask what happens to the tin particles? isnt that why leaded petrol got phased out? 8O


they pass out through the exhaust and free up your wastegate, duh!
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Postby xsspeed » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:13 am

so passers by can breath it in?

yeah lol at lubricating effects of tin

the turbo hadnt worked in 100,000 kms, so what it was jammed and the exhaust gasses passed through how?
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Postby Stealer Of Souls » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:04 am

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Postby Gonad » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:11 am

My uncle has actually taken the plunge to see whether these things work.

It'll be installed on a Prius of all things which I believe has all sorts of measurey things to tell you how many km's per litre, litres per 100km etc etc etc.

Currently monitoring and recording fuel use over the next 10,000km or so without it and will do the same once it is installed.

I suppose its not controlled conditions but better than talking trash.

I'll let you know how it goes in about a year.....
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Postby Mr.Phreak » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:59 am

:lol:
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Postby slighty_sykotic » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:19 am

So, having just read this,

Isnt it march?

Wasn't our good friend meant to be testing his fuelstar in feb?
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