If you were doing a skid.

[solitaire]

You could argue it would take 2 seconds or more to react to the sudden and unexpected loss of traction and regain control of the vehicle.

Especially if there is no lsd... can be fairly subtle sometimes

[Akane]

LOLOLOL

First of all, for skids if my back end suddenly came out, my very natural reaction is let off gas and countersteer, this bleeds off the excess speed while "trying" to keep the car off the kerb, once you feel the car's losing speed and the back end starting to grip, apply thottle as required, ahhh good times in the S13 I miss that rusty sh1tbox.

To get off the case, I need way more details than that, I did find a few "flaws" with the cop's statement, I had some knownledge in physics and with some aeroplane information, also a clear sharp mind, let's just say I convinced the judges that the senior sergent was seeing things that wasn't really there

[Dragger_Dan]

I agree with you simply because this is a bullshit charge anyway (especially on wet days, just did this myself on the way home from work tonight), but i'm not too sure that claiming a two second reaction time to simply remove your foot from the pedal sounds like the best defence.

[RedMist]

LOLOLOL

First of all, for skids if my back end suddenly came out, my very natural reaction is let off gas and countersteer,

How on earth have you not tagged a tree while going backward in your SW?
Middies do react differently to other engine configurations. In a middy the worst thing that can happen is sudden change in grip levels. Button off and you're almost certainly going to grip and snap oversteer and start wagging the tail.
No sideways action, slow speeds, different engine configuration I'd come straight off the accl and just let her grip. You also have to remember that you'll be doing some wierd weight transfers straight after the grip so dont go straight back on the accl.
Middy, high speeds, sideways action, you cant afford the dramatic weight transfer. I'd back out slightly, keep the skid, and attempt to straighten the car before regaining grip.

[AE86less]

When I was charged with Sustained Loss I had just driven round a corner (quite fast) and applied the boot a little hard, Obviously there is no LSD in a standard AE85 and the inside wheel spun (I didn't even think it had). The cop said that it was sustained. The charge was reduced to Careless Use because it was argued that the cop was not sitting there with a stopwatch, therefore his timing was completely subjective. Added to the fact that it was a very minor offence and the cop had failed to tell me I didn't have to make a statement this was enough to have my charge reduced.

[pc]

Looks like a very normal thing to happen... If you unload one wheel in an open diff, and put that unloaded wheel on wet seal then it *will* spin. This unloading would have happened with the sudden change of angle in the exit.
As long as the car didn't slide sideways, the correct thing to do would be keep the gas on til you were on the road.

[Bling]

wait till it rains again and take photos of the spot the loss of traction took place, can't do any harm to take in evidence that the situation was not a case of pulling a phat skid, but rather just trying to leave the carpark via a steep exit in the rain. fkn cops can be wankers aye!

[Akane]

LOLOLOL

First of all, for skids if my back end suddenly came out, my very natural reaction is let off gas and countersteer,

How on earth have you not tagged a tree while going backward in your SW?
Middies do react differently to other engine configurations. In a middy the worst thing that can happen is sudden change in grip levels. Button off and you're almost certainly going to grip and snap oversteer and start wagging the tail.
No sideways action, slow speeds, different engine configuration I'd come straight off the accl and just let her grip. You also have to remember that you'll be doing some wierd weight transfers straight after the grip so dont go straight back on the accl.
Middy, high speeds, sideways action, you cant afford the dramatic weight transfer. I'd back out slightly, keep the skid, and attempt to straighten the car before regaining grip.

I was referring to my old S13, in the rain like in OP's situation. Bucket loads more fun compared to the SW.

In the SW in the dry I only managed to get her skid (unintentionally) once. That's when I just got the car and came flying up a bend (Diana Dr on the shore, with the shops to your right), I realised I was going too fast and applied brakes during the corner, arse end came out and then I just ease off the brake a bit and countersteer and hoped for the best. That's back in 2001.

[Truenotch]

sus·tained, sus·tain·ing, sus·tains

1. To keep in existence; maintain.
2. To supply with necessities or nourishment; provide for.
3. To support from below; keep from falling or sinking; prop.
4. To support the spirits, vitality, or resolution of; encourage.
5. To bear up under; withstand: can't sustain the blistering heat.
6. To experience or suffer: sustained a fatal injury.
7. To affirm the validity of: The judge has sustained the prosecutor's objection.
8. To prove or corroborate; confirm.
9. To keep up (a joke or assumed role, for example) competently.

So to be sustaining loss of traction you have to be supporting the spirits? . Does he support the spirits of drift?

I think that sustained means you have to be making a conscious effort to do the action in question, and then keep it going.



Akane/redmist:
It's not that hard to hold an MR sideways .

[Jdawg]

Take pictures of the driveway to help show your point. And don't mention shifting to second gear, it makes it sound like you were speeding put of there.

[rolla_fxgt]

I would also argue that surely the intent of the word sustained in the law when imagined by law makers was that it had to be sustained i.e not 2 or 3 seconds, but at least 10-15 seconds, and that the circumstances of the road needed to be taken into account, i.e snow, diesel, rain etc. And that by loosing traction for 2 seconds if that is so inconsequential as not to matter.

I think that you've been unlucky & just struck a cop who's having their period or whatever.

I mean there's a steep road in dunners that's concrete & to go up it in the rain I have to do it in 1st gear & the wheels spin at every gap between concrete panels for about 2 seconds while I back lightly off the throttle to gain traction while maintaining momentum, and if I got done for what you've been done for i'd be mighty pissed as i imagine you are. In fact I'd challenge it & challenge the judge to try drive the car in the rain on the piece of road without wheel spinning. Is this an option for you?

[solitaire]

Akane/redmist:
It's not that hard to hold an MR sideways .

I find it quite hard... but i dont have lsd so thats probably half the problem... but not for long!

(not that i want to do skids, but its nice to get a bit freaky with the a rse on the back roads occasionally)

[xsspeed]

but its nice to get a bit freaky with the a rse occasionally)

hmmm - misquote

[solitaire]

but its nice to get a bit freaky with the a rse occasionally)

hmmm - misquote

Well i have been know to say that in almost all context's at one time or another - so your quote is still valid mate

[Mike-]

video some other people doing it

[solitaire]

video some other people doing it

I've tried but they always see me and call the cops...

[79rolla]

so is he been done under boy racer act??
you sed he has been driving for 20 years? how old is he?
apparently to get done under boy racer act you have to be under the age of 25 i think of of the top of my heaid...

2 seconds is not sustaind... expechaly in wet with change in surfuce...

i would ease off gas untill it stoped skidding then apply gas gentaily again...

hope he gets off.. let us no what happens

[solitaire]

I dont think any laws like this can descriminate based on age... could be wrong?

But i saw an article in the paper where some 40 year old did a skid from the lights in his merc and got done and was complaining that he wasnt a boyracer so should not be fined... yeah buddy, youve got an expensive car so its ok for you to skid.

[Truenotch]

^:lol: ^

I would also argue that surely the intent of the word sustained in the law when imagined by law makers was that it had to be sustained i.e not 2 or 3 seconds, but at least 10-15 seconds, and that the circumstances of the road needed to be taken into account, i.e snow, diesel, rain etc. And that by loosing traction for 2 seconds if that is so inconsequential as not to matter.

I don't think that "sustained" can be measured in seconds, because (to me) it is something that takes intent. So to sustain something you are making an effort. 10-15 seconds wouldn't work anyway, you could do a 20-50kph whip in the wet that only lasts 2 seconds, but would still get in trouble (probably rightfully so).

I was lucky in Wanganui a couple of weeks ago, turning around on a road just smaller then my turning circle with a tight LSD. Ended up in a little skid and the policeman would have given me a fine had it not been for the fact that I didn't live there / wasn't one of the gangsters out front / needed to go home. It's all a judgement call from the policeman at the end of the day.

Hopefully this person gets off though.

[barryogen]

But i saw an article in the paper where some 40 year old did a skid from the lights in his merc

That dude was a lawyer wanting to test the new law... he tested it and lost.