*AltezzaRS200* Good Tune VS Bad Tune... You decide...

[Titties]

I've posted in the tech questions before, but i'll add a thread here for my car, seeing as not many people have tuned NA Altezza's (3sge)
Here is previous dyno sheets.
Stock standard with pod filter only (power run @ Tricky Tune) -


HKS Super Header type II, 2.5" exhaust with 1x reso and a twin loop muffler, Pod filter, Apexi Power FC. Tuned by Speedfactor tauranga -
*EDIT* Dyno plots are stock Power FC map and tuned map.


Exact same mods as above, driven for a few months.



MY STORY -
Well after driving around my car for a while, i wanted to get it check tuned.
There was a massive flat spot below 2500rpm (as you can see on the Super Rich fuelling on the old Dyno sheet) and the throttle response was overly poor.

I took into another tuner, and they tried to patch up the old tune.
They said it was pretty messy, so i decided to go for a FULL RETUNE.
This resulted in about 20-30kw increase of power over the full midrange, with about 10kw up top.
Torque @ 4000rpm almost doubled...
It was about 160km and 50litres on the dyno, taking about ~10hrs to tune.

Just goes to show you do get what you pay for.

Now with Cusco front and rear swaybars installed, along with my TEIN Flex suspension and Slotted discs paired with Mintex 1166 pads i'm ready to hit the track

Cheers, Mike

[barryogen]

Well, you were pleased with the first tune when it was done, and you're clearly even more pleased with this one.

Maybe chalk it up to experience?

Incidentally, 10 hrs seems excessive. I'm booked into NZEFI in a few weeks, with an expected under 4hrs for the tune, actually, they said they should have it out in less time, and that 4hrs would be the max.

*Edit*
When I get mine, June 6th, I'll post it in this thread, should be interesting to see. Details of mine will be in sig shortly.

[fivebob]

Just goes to show you do get what you pay for.

To be fair to the original tuner, this also goes for the tools he used to do the tuning. From the original dyno plot it doesn't look too bad, reasonably smooth power and AFR curves, maybe a liitle bit rich down low for a NA (though it's also possible your new tune is a fraction lean up top for track use, closer to 0.88 might be safer, but that's just my opinion)

Just show the difference between using a load holding dyno and a quality AFR meter vs an inertia dyno and a heavily damped AFR meter. The former is very good for tuning, the latter is only really good for bragging rights

[nite b]

Interesting.. Awesome that you have tried different dynos and tuners etc, always neat when someone back to backs their caro on dynos- gives good indication of the variation of readings you can end up with.

Get to the 1/4! Be interesting to see the difference there now

[RomanV]

I wonder if this is a classic case of dyno operator tweaking air temperature numbers etc to give the customer what he wants to see. (For the original 'modded' dyno run) No offence but I thought it seemed a bit on the high side, given the standard engine + bolt on mods. Or perhaps it simply is just a variation between dynos, quite a large % of difference though.

Either way, yeah thanks for posting this, interesting to know.

Who did your latest dyno tune BTW?

[Titties]

Tuner was Carl Ruiterman (D1NZ competitor) from E&H Motors in Pukekohe.
Awesome guy, very friendly and knows his shit.
I'm just glad that he tuned it to the limit of the car, not to the limit of the tuner,
Anyways, very very happy with the end result.

Incidentally, 10 hrs seems excessive

I was thinking that, but with the amount of effort he put in with the VVT-i tuning it was all worth it. I stopped by after the first day and had a chat to him, and what he actually has to do to get the best possible timing/power out of it, it's alot of work.

I guess i'm just dissapointed at the tune that Speedfactor did, if they couldn't tune it to the best of the cars abilities, maybe they should have told me that rather than just giving a stab at doing it...
But at the end of the day they are just another workshop doing a job.

Roman - We still gotta catch up sometime mate, with the new setup i gotta take you for a spin!!
Gimme a txt on 0211 747427, i'm in Puke for most weekends but i'm in West auckland for the weekdays.

Cheers, Mike

[strx7]

speedfactor specialises in honda's what more can i say???

[flygt4]

speedfactor specialises in honda's what more can i say???

yeah but they do ave a reputation as being good with n/a's and variable valve timing etc, you would expect they could do well with an altezza.

[JustinSpiderholden]

speedfactor specialises in honda's what more can i say???

yeah but they do ave a reputation as being good with n/a's and variable valve timing etc, you would expect they could do well with an altezza.

end of the day a car is a car, if you can tune one, you should be able to tune others

[RedMist]

Incidentally, 10 hrs seems excessive. I'm booked into NZEFI in a few weeks, with an expected under 4hrs for the tune, actually, they said they should have it out in less time, and that 4hrs would be the max.

*Edit*
When I get mine, June 6th, I'll post it in this thread, should be interesting to see. Details of mine will be in sig shortly.

Walter, NZEFI, spent more than 10 hours tuning my enigine. He spent 4 hours getting transition fueling on the button. Will be interesting to see if you get your car turned around with 4 hours on the dyno.

[strx7]

knowing what works with constantly variable cam timing is what it comes down to with those engines. I recomended going to PF Automotive in tauranga as they have EXPERIENCE with those engines.

[carter_4]

am i missing something here or is your speed factor tune like 145kw and ur latest one around 115??

surely im missing something here?

[Titties]

am i missing something here or is your speed factor tune like 145kw and ur latest one around 115??

surely im missing something here?

diff dyno's read differently.
Deanis (a mate from work) told me he saw a 77kwatw subaru WRX run a mid 13sec quarter at the drags...
Obviously it had more than that, just the dyno was reading low.

[Titties]

speedfactor specialises in honda's what more can i say???

With that being said, if they couldn't get the best out of it maybe they should have told me that... rather than waving a banana at the laptop and hoping for good results.

At the end of the day i'm just happy that it's running 100% now, can't wait to get it out on the track!!

[RomanV]

There was a near standard altezza on slicks and coilovers at one of the trackdays that I've been to, and it was damn fast!

This car should be a stack of fun on the track.

[carter_4]

am i missing something here or is your speed factor tune like 145kw and ur latest one around 115??

surely im missing something here?

diff dyno's read differently.
Deanis (a mate from work) told me he saw a 77kwatw subaru WRX run a mid 13sec quarter at the drags...
Obviously it had more than that, just the dyno was reading low.

ahh yep, cool man.

so judging from the difference in the graphing, you'd think its around 155-160kwatw now?

[xsspeed]

only if it was to retest on the original dyno under same conditions,

dyno figures are a contentious subject, basically the power figure you get differs greatly from dyno to dyno, as well as the difference between dyno types (rolling road/hub) you may have noticed its been discussed a bit lately. At the end of the day you can use a dyno run as bragging rights, tho most racers would like to see the power backed up with a quick et on the 400m. more specifically a dyno is better used as a tool for tuning, measuring power gained from mods (before and after runs) etc. In t his instance the same dyno (and perhaps tuner) should be used to avoid discrepancies.

hope that clears the waters for you a bit

[Celica RA45]

we have used a std beams fwd motor and it made 112 kws std for 200 hp, on the dyno and also had a std s2000 honda make 138kws on same dyno same day and these are 240hp std .
my race car with altezza 3sge make 186.3 on the same dyno and i go back to it with the same tire pressures and we tie it down the same every time .the only thing that can change the power ,we have tried and it does change is different tyre aspect ratio and also if you change the diff ratio as well and if you put the car in 3rd instead of 4th you get a different reading
the last 1 is a good 1 always check to make sure no 1 is playing around with your air temp as that will give you heaps of hp if it isnt done properly

[xnickx]

Isnt it normally SUPPOSED to be done in the second to last gear (e.g. 6speed car use 5th) as its the gear that is/closest to 1:1 ratio?

[Distrb]

Isnt it normally SUPPOSED to be done in the second to last gear (e.g. 6speed car use 5th) as its the gear that is/closest to 1:1 ratio?

Most use the gear thats closest to 1:1 ratio that allows a full plot over the rev range. For instance in altezza with factory ecu, they hit speed cut in the 5th gear (1:1 ratio) before they reach their rev cut. So drop back to 4th.