Motec on a ST202 3SGE BEAMS

[Wolf_Tm250]

Hello,

a friend bought a 3SGE beams in Japan, that came without the ecu.
So he's going to buy an M4:
is there anyone with a wiring diagram and a base map ?

Thanks in advance.

[Celica RA45]

make sure he buys a m400 so it can run the cam control .also i think link in you home of nz make 1 as well for vvti

[Wolf_Tm250]

Really?!?

I thought vvti on 3sge was mechanical, so no need for electronic cam control...

[fivebob]

Which Beams motor is it?

Would still be better off with the M400 even if it doesn't need cam control

[Wolf_Tm250]

Hi Mate!

Engine is 1996 2000cc 3sge beams red top, 200 hp...
I know m400 is much better, i just bought one for mine...
but so much more expensive than a used M4, especially if the cam control is not needed!

[fivebob]

I know m400 is much better, i just bought one for mine...
but so much more expensive than a used M4, especially if the cam control is not needed!

Depends on where you buy it from

They're about €1730 if you buy them in Australia

[Wolf_Tm250]

Sure, this is really a very good price!!
But he found a used M4 for 1000 euros...
Mate, do you have a wiring diagram and/or a base map for it?

[xsspeed]

Really?!?

I thought vvti on 3sge was mechanical, so no need for electronic cam control...

Maybe my naivity but didnt the beams red top come out in 1997 in caldina gt's and 1998 in mr2's and celica SIII's?

[fivebob]

I don't have a wiring diagram for that specific engine. I have one for the Caldina(190HP) version and pin assignments for the MR2 version. Both of these have pins OCV+ & OCV- to control the VVTi.

Base Map should be easy enough to make if it's just to get it running. I have copies of the Altezza base map for the Apexi PowerFC which should get you close.

These are the pin assignments for the MR2 engine.

[Celica RA45]

its electronic control for the vvti and motec use cam control only to work the vvti ,so you will need a m400 to run the vvti as it is always moving to get the best out of the motor ,ps its not vvt where its turned on and then turned off ,as i still use it on my race motors for inlet and exhaust with 500 thou lift


as a side note it will run all of the std sensors including the coils the crank sensor and cam sensor etc and in sequential firing for the coils as well

[Wolf_Tm250]

Really?!?

I thought vvti on 3sge was mechanical, so no need for electronic cam control...

Maybe my naivity but didnt the beams red top come out in 1997 in caldina gt's and 1998 in mr2's and celica SIII's?

Yes, it was a 1998 3SGE Beams engine from an SSIII...

[Wolf_Tm250]

I don't have a wiring diagram for that specific engine. I have one for the Caldina(190HP) version and pin assignments for the MR2 version. Both of these have pins OCV+ & OCV- to control the VVTi.

Base Map should be easy enough to make if it's just to get it running. I have copies of the Altezza base map for the Apexi PowerFC which should get you close.

These are the pin assignments for the MR2 engine.

If you could send me that Altezza's base map, it would be a big help to start with...

wolf_tm@tre.it

And thanks a lot for the ecu pins !

[Wolf_Tm250]

its electronic control for the vvti and motec use cam control only to work the vvti ,so you will need a m400 to run the vvti as it is always moving to get the best out of the motor ,ps its not vvt where its turned on and then turned off ,as i still use it on my race motors for inlet and exhaust with 500 thou lift

as a side note it will run all of the std sensors including the coils the crank sensor and cam sensor etc and in sequential firing for the coils as well

Ok, thank you !

[fivebob]

If you could send me that Altezza's base map, it would be a big help to start with...

The base map I have is for a PowerFC, it would need converting to the Motec table format.

Regardless of that I don't think an M4 will work on this engine, or at least not get the maximum potential out of the engine.

How do you plan on running the COP ignition system???

Is the 36-2 crank angle sensor going to work in the M4???

What about the cam angle sensor???

It really needs an M400 to run properly.

[Wolf_Tm250]

If you could send me that Altezza's base map, it would be a big help to start with...

The base map I have is for a PowerFC, it would need converting to the Motec table format.

Regardless of that I don't think an M4 will work on this engine, or at least not get the maximum potential out of the engine.

Yes, sure... with no cam control it's impossible to have good results !

M400 is then a must on this engine.

How do you plan on running the COP ignition system???

We have an Ignition Expander here, but no way, he has to use an M400!

[Bazda]

why such an expensive ecu for a stock engine?

motec = expensive, and expensive to get tuned as well.

I prefer Autronic, its a little cheaper to purchase and its eaier to tune IMO.

[Wolf_Tm250]

why such an expensive ecu for a stock engine?

motec = expensive, and expensive to get tuned as well.

I prefer Autronic, its a little cheaper to purchase and its eaier to tune IMO.

I looked at the SM4 before purchasing an M400, and it was not so cheaper... just a little bit...

More over there is no official support here in Italy...

That's why it's still preferrable

[fivebob]

why such an expensive ecu for a stock engine?

motec = expensive, and expensive to get tuned as well.

I prefer Autronic, its a little cheaper to purchase and its eaier to tune IMO.

Everyone has their own (biased) opinions of an ECU. Your statement about the ease of tune of the Autronic over the Motec is the exact opposite of what I've found. So how many M-400/600/800s Motecs have you tuned?

The ease of tune is more a matter of familarity with the software, I find the software interface of the Motec to be a lot easy to use than the Autronic. I had no problems installing and tuning my M800 myself.

I've had a go at tuning one Autronic, hated the interface and the inability to change something as simple as the injector type easily was annoying. Only interface that I've found that was worse was the Hydra Nemesis.

At the current cost of an M400 it's actually about the same price as an SM4. The support from Motec is much better, free lifetime software upgrades is a much better option than returning the ECU to the manufacturer for an upgrade. Also resale value is better, not that you'd ever want to sell a Motec

[Adydas]

hold up till i get my gen3 3sge back with the M48 and ill let you know the whole lot :p

[RomanV]

There are a few alternatives to M400.

You could buy a brashboy powerfc, which is more or less plug and play... And comes with a good base tune.

Or use a 1ZZFE powerfc, has the same pinout with the exception of how coil pack return signal works IIRC, so need 2 or 3 wires spliced together and a set of 1ZZFE coilpacks. One guy was running beams 3S on standard 1ZZFE computer. Not well though

more info here on that.

Powerfc is probably the cheapest option that retains full functionality of standard computer, eg idle control, VVTI map, etc.

I'd probably rather an M400 if I plucked $100 bills from a money tree for a living though.