Whats wrong with my ST215???

[peas]

Okay driving home two nights ago my car ("99 3S-GE beams Caldina) just started to splutter and cough... had just moved it into D from 2 (autos!!!) finally just didnt have the balls to get up the road. Managed to get it home but its still stuffed... This is what happens...

*Cold or hot it moves off fine under idle once you select drive...
*As soon as you try to accelerate the engine just has real trouble running to the point where the lights go dim...
*trans changes and runs fine down hills...
*toyota has had a look and the fluids are doing what they are meant to at the temps they are meant to be at...
*fuel system has pressure and no obvious signs from injectors...
*tried new airflow meter but still no joy...
*no fault codes...

WTF is wrong with it?

[xsspeed]

you may have THE caldina dash problem, will clarify this tomorrow

[peas]

Just for the furtherment of the Tech Questions forum... The technician believes it to be an exhaust manifold leak which has been feeding the O2 sensor some dodgy readings and leaning out the mixture. Might be worth keeping in mind as apparently these models, esp the turbo ones, are pretty good at cracking manifolds.

[xsspeed]

Ah yes THE caldina manifold issue, I should have thought of that 1st.

Basically these two (other mentioned above) plus wheel bearings are the Caldina curses

[fivebob]

The technician believes it to be an exhaust manifold leak which has been feeding the O2 sensor some dodgy readings and leaning out the mixture.

How could an exhaust manifold leak cause the O2 sensor to read rich??

Lean I could maybe understand, but rich make no sense

[peas]

I didn't really get that either but I assume that he knows his stuff... resetting the ECU resolved the problem so you would assume a sensor somewhere...


What is the dash issue that you mentioned xsspeed?

[BZG Wagon]

I didn't really get that either but I assume that he knows his stuff... resetting the ECU resolved the problem so you would assume a sensor somewhere...


What is the dash issue that you mentioned xsspeed?

viewtopic.php?t=64497&start=20

I think I was the latest victim to be hit by Toyota's manafacturing brilliance

[fivebob]

I didn't really get that either but I assume that he knows his stuff...

IMHO that's a big mistake. There is no way that I know of that an O2 sensor will read rich when there is excess oxygen from a crack in the manifold. Excess O2 indicates a lean condition, in which case the ECU will richen the mixture.

resetting the ECU resolved the problem so you would assume a sensor somewhere...

Again another mistake in assuming something. Resetting the ECU does nothing to fix sensor faults. It only resets long term trims and very few Toyota ECUs even store long term trims. That said however bcause resetting the ECU solved the problem it's possible that your ECU does store trims. I would be very suprised though if those trims were lean because of a fault in your manifold.

Another thing to consider is that the ECU does not usually use the O2 sensor when the engine is under load, Narrow band sensors are not of much use when you go much above of below stoichometic so they usually switch off the trims above a certain point. Also the trims usually have a limit beyond which they will not do any further adjustment, typically this is set a point around +/-20% and shouldn't do that suddenly as was indicated in your original post.

[xsspeed]

Resetting the ECU is a bit of a cop out IMO, did he change the sensor at all as well?
I remember reading that the beams 3sge's don't really like having the ecu reset, yeah its a quick fix but at the end of the day it probably hasn't fixed the real problem.

The dash problem is when you lose tacho and speedo response, you get the engine display light and maybe the ecu goes into limp mode.
I find in my GT that despite having the gear selector in D it will flick into 2nd or won't repond to gas.

Aparently its caused by a dry point on the solder on the instrument custer. Generally an easy fix but s you will read in the thread posted above, can maybe be a tricky

[peas]

Sensor was replaced about 4 weeks ago due to a high idle. Yeah it prob hasn't fixed it but hey its moving.

[sergei]

........
1) ("99 3S-GE beams Caldina) just started to splutter and cough... had just moved it into D from 2 (autos!!!) finally just didnt have the balls to get up the road. Managed to get it home but its still stuffed... This is what happens...

2)

*Cold or hot it moves off fine under idle once you select drive...

3)

*As soon as you try to accelerate the engine just has real trouble running to the point where the lights go dim...

4)

*trans changes and runs fine down hills...

5)

*toyota has had a look and the fluids are doing what they are meant to at the temps they are meant to be at...

6)

*fuel system has pressure and no obvious signs from injectors...

7)

*tried new airflow meter but still no joy...

*no fault codes...

First I would like to point that his Caldina is NA and manifold problem does not apply to him.
1) Cough and splutter might indicate dead/dying fuel pump among other things, (airflow meter perhaps)
2) With dodgy fuel pump it can idle fine
3) Lights go dim? you mean headlights or dash lights? depends how dim, you might have battery problem/charging system problem. Anyway I don't really thing this is the problem.
5) Toyota had a look? was just for free? If it was not, they are bunch of morons if they could not at least pin point the problem...
6) How did you test the pressure in fuel line?
7) Was the new air flow meter tested on other vehicle to see if it is not faulty? Majority of air flow meters are dirty and will not read properly, they can be cleaned with carb cleaner/ brake cleaner.
Again fault codes are not 100% proof that there is no fault (like loose crank sprocket, or faulty crank angle sensor)

[KinLoud]

Idles ok but won't produce any power...
cambelt jumped a couple of teeth?

Ken
Auck
021 408 863

[peas]

I did pay for them to look at it, but to be fair they gave me a good deal on the labour. I had just had the high idle issue looked at which involved the cleaning of the throttle body etc and a new O2 sensor fitted.

I would expect a particular component to be on its way out to be unaffected by resetting the ECU. Just by doing this wouldn't change the condition or operation of that component surely? It would point to a signal that the ECU was getting from somewhere wouldn't it?

[matt dunn]

I did pay for them to look at it, but to be fair they gave me a good deal on the labour. I had just had the high idle issue looked at which involved the cleaning of the throttle body etc and a new O2 sensor fitted.

So are you one of those people who take a car in with an obvious problem,
tell them you dont want to spend much and ask them to do something completly non related and expect them to fix both things?

we get that at work and I hate it. You end up working on a cra and at the end of it you feel like yopu have achieved nothing as the car still runs like a piece if shit, but you know you cant look at the big picture, as the customer wont pay.

[Mr.Phreak]

we get that at work and I hate it. You end up working on a cra and at the end of it you feel like yopu have achieved nothing as the car still runs like a piece if sh*t, but you know you cant look at the big picture, as the customer wont pay.

You're not the only one, and it's not just cars

[peas]

So are you one of those people who take a car in with an obvious problem,
tell them you dont want to spend much and ask them to do something completly non related and expect them to fix both things?

we get that at work and I hate it. You end up working on a cra and at the end of it you feel like yopu have achieved nothing as the car still runs like a piece if sh*t, but you know you cant look at the big picture, as the customer wont pay.

Without you knowing that I have spent $1500 on this car in the last 2 months or so I could accept why you might think like that. I don't have money falling out of my arse... the car runs and it get me to work when its raining and to other appointments that are outside my cycling range. I will replace the manifold when I have the cash if thats okay with you. The problem wasn't that obvious, I had many ideas going through my head as to what could cause. I can appreciate what you say with regards to the job not being done but still no reason to take a cheap shot. I've got other things that demands my money on besides my car.

By the way it seems that Toyotas policy is to take an hour to diagnose the problem then get in touch with how they are going without going further... I told them to continue when they came up blank, I don't expect shit to be done for nothing.

[sergei]

So are you one of those people who take a car in with an obvious problem,
tell them you dont want to spend much and ask them to do something completly non related and expect them to fix both things?

we get that at work and I hate it. You end up working on a cra and at the end of it you feel like yopu have achieved nothing as the car still runs like a piece if sh*t, but you know you cant look at the big picture, as the customer wont pay.

Without you knowing that I have spent $1500 on this car in the last 2 months or so I could accept why you might think like that. I don't have money falling out of my ar*e... the car runs and it get me to work when its raining and to other appointments that are outside my cycling range. I will replace the manifold when I have the cash if thats okay with you. The problem wasn't that obvious, I had many ideas going through my head as to what could cause. I can appreciate what you say with regards to the job not being done but still no reason to take a cheap shot. I've got other things that demands my money on besides my car.

By the way it seems that Toyotas policy is to take an hour to diagnose the problem then get in touch with how they are going without going further... I told them to continue when they came up blank, I don't expect sh*t to be done for nothing.

Could you please explain why you need to change manifold on a non turbo caldina? Surely even if manifold was cracked/warped it would still drive fine (apart from tractor noise).

[peas]

This is what Toyota has told me the probable root of the problem was. I didn't (still don't) really understand how this affects my O2 sensor but neither am I a mechanic. They seem to have exhausted other avenues that I considered and the causes that they suspected obviously. It needs to be fixed for wof regardless.

[sergei]

This is what Toyota has told me the probable root of the problem was. I didn't (still don't) really understand how this affects my O2 sensor but neither am I a mechanic. They seem to have exhausted other avenues that I considered and the causes that they suspected obviously. It needs to be fixed for wof regardless.

But are you sure that the manifold is leaky in first place?
Your caldina is non-turbo, right?
So as far as I am aware non-turbo motors get tubular manifolds and these don't crack. Even if you have leak the problem might be in gasket.
O2 or no O2 the car will still drive, little bit flat but will be drivable. Your problem is seems to be timing issue more than anything (although dud fuel pump has similar symptoms).

[postfach]

Just to back up what Sergei has said about the fuel pump, I have had several pump failures on my car and it behaves as you describe, idles fine, small amount of throttle input is fine but if you try to put your foot down you get nothing, feels like the engine is cutting out (because it is - there's no fuel). There is no error code for a faulty pump as far as I know.

Again, how was the fuel system tested? Was the pressure tested when the engine was under load or just at idle? This *can* be an intermittent fault, trust me, I've had the worst luck ever with fuel pumps