Election 08

[fivebob]

My point was there must be a reason that you live here. And if you're going to complain about the country but not do anything at all to try and change that then maybe you are the giant douche or the turd sandwich.

That has to be the most arrogant (and ignorant) point of view I've ever heard on the subject of not voting.

What right do you have to say that someone else’s opinion on the quality of government carries less weight than you own, just because you voted? (That's a rhetorical question btw).

Everyone’s opinion has equal weight, whether or not they choose to exercise their option to vote ..

I mean there are always other options. Move countries is one. And if you are going to say that you won't because you love NZ then you have no reason to complain, or if you do want to complain you should vote and at least try and fix whatever you see wrong with the country, because if you can't be assed fixing it don't bitch about it.

Hmmm, where do I start.... Well for one, someone who doesn't vote probably has more right to complain about the quality of the government than someone who voted for the party in power.

What happens if you don't want any of them, should you waste your time and at least register a protest by voting informally? Or should you just forget about it because there are no palatable options.

There are two sayings that sum up this quandary quite succinctly, they are.

“Don’t vote, governments always win”…. And
“Don’t vote, it only encourages them”

[TURCEL]

Go the Maori party!

Also another non voter here... meh... same shit, just a different colour.

[DXROLLA]

I realy have no idea on who to vote for? Act seem to be the only ones that dont change there story every second day. Naitonal seen to wait until labour anounce a policy and than they try to beat it, when realy they will probly end up doing nothing that they say they are? And this will be my first time voting as i was to young last time

[Mr.Phreak]

Someone needs a hug....

OOOOOOO

Don't agree with scraping the dole either, there are a lot of people who genuinely need it between jobs (Including probably hundreds of WINZ workers if she gets her way ) but I think it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

[Bling]

That really is a cop out though. I mean if you don't vote then what right do you have to whinge about the state of the nation as you see it?

I was all for voting until its become even more so aparent as to how much they bloody lie all the time....

Why should I vote for the lesser of 2 evils.... I seriously don't trust any party to do what they say so whats the point.

However i'm 50/50 chance of voiting for B&B just so I get something out of the election, a lol

[Mr Revhead]

a vote for anyone other than labour or national is just a waste
they are the only parties that have a chance at winning
so if you dont want to vote for them, stay home.

i will be damn glad when labour get the boot
i am sick and tired of their bullshit nana state policies and petty childish insults. seriously all helen does is sling mud! the amount of government waste that has happend under her government is just staggering.... if a business was runt he way the government departments are being run they would be going under in no time! the only reason they arnt going under is we keep paying into them!!

the only way labour may win is in coalition with the maori and green partys
and that is scarier than seeing me first thing in the morning. naked.

[bbq1988]

That really is a cop out though. I mean if you don't vote then what right do you have to whinge about the state of the nation as you see it?

I was all for voting until its become even more so aparent as to how much they bloody lie all the time....

Why should I vote for the lesser of 2 evils.... I seriously don't trust any party to do what they say so whats the point.

However i'm 50/50 chance of voiting for B&B just so I get something out of the election, a lol

5% and they get a seat!

[Bling]

a vote for anyone other than labour or national is just a waste
they are the only parties that have a chance at winning
so if you dont want to vote for them, stay home.

To a certain extent thats true, but the minor parties WILL be needed to form a government, so I don't see voting for a minor party that MAY best suit your views as a waste. As your vote may help that smaller party become bigger then they can hold the main party to ransom and get some awesome policy in like the anti-smacking bill!! the system works well as you can see

I didn't even bother voting in this poll keen to see how many votes B&B do get tho...

[sergei]

Could you please put "No one" as option, as I feel there are a lot of people who think every single party is full of it.
I say, round up all politicians and shoot them. All they care about is either/all about money, power, fame.
Do you think Helen cares that I have to give over 30% to the government just to pay for some bastards thirteenth kid?
Or John, who will give my ~30% to his rich buddies as tax relieve?
Or whoever is in charge of greens will waste it on some stupid pot smoking plan?
Or Maori who will put into iwi?
Where is real socialist party, that will cut amount government workers by 70%, make all the politicians pay for their travel expenses, cut the dole and encourage people to work? And ffs stop paying for kids, 1st kid should be helped with, 2nd kid maybe 50% of what has been given for first, 3 kids you are on your own, and 4 or more should be penalised (take the buggers away, like I care, breeding is antisocial behaviour when it is relied greatly on others, or even sterilize people after five kids).

For ignorant bastards socialism is not communism.
I know great deal about communism, and Labour stinks of it.

From my point of view, the whole voting is a big farce. All they do is create hot air and waste money.

[Mr Revhead]

To a certain extent thats true, but the minor parties WILL be needed to form a government, so I don't see voting for a minor party that MAY best suit your views as a waste. As your vote may help that smaller party become bigger then they can hold the main party to ransom and get some awesome policy in like the anti-smacking bill!! the system works well as you can see

no they wont be needed if ppl dont vote for them
MMP is just crap for the exact reasons you go into above

[method]

a vote for anyone other than labour or national is just a waste
they are the only parties that have a chance at winning
so if you dont want to vote for them, stay home.

Dont think what you said is right. It should be a democratic government with the busness type (national), social type (labour), earth lovers (green), old hard liners (nz first), clown (act) all represented proportionally to those groups in nz. (very general stereotypicalisation but you get my point).

After all we live in a democracy, if one party can govern alone then it is definately a waste of time that any other parties are there. And if one party is governing the rest of the seats, and thus the rest of the countries opinions (represented by various parties) are non existant. Can hardly call that democratic at all.

Another thing is more referendums should be held on important issues that dont need to be passed urgently, such as the anti-smacking bill. Dont see why not..

[Mr Revhead]

doesnt seem right that a minor party with around 6% of the vote can ram a policy a large majority of the country doesnt want through and make it stick

or a party with 8 seats hold a party with 40 odd seats to ransom over power.

imo majority rules is better than a small percentage of nutters having a major say due to the power plays MMP creates

[Mr Revhead]

good point on referendums though

[Adamal]

Yea, MMP = Resources wasted where they could be better spent. Eg Anti-smacking bill.

[method]

Yeah that is the obvious down side. But it stops the large parties doing things willy nilly. Forced coalition could stop governments like national selling all the countries assets off.

Think labor has done well with the student loans, kiwibank, airnz, and there is potential with rail if managed right. I dont see why more things can be transported by rail rather than 100 trucks. IMO public assets are important, but they should be run as a company like the airnz and kiwibank case with NZ being the majority shareholder.

Think national has good ideas but it would be a shame to see money makers like kiwibank go. Also one of the only banks that dont rip you off. (as much).
Why privatise them fully, so someone else can make money off it?

[rolla_fxgt]

We should go for STV (Single Transferable Vote), have like 60 electorates with 2 seats in each, two candidates in each seat with the most votes win. STV allows for individuals to actually stand a chance in elections, and means a wider representation in parliament, and makes parties a bit weaker. Also means useless people are less likely to get into parliment on the back of the party vote (ie Sue Bradford, I mean who would actually vote for her?).

It works by ranking the candidates, from 1 to however many you want to rank in your electorate. Could even make it interesting by saying any party that wins more than 6 seats has to run more than 2 candidates in each electorate, so the parties have less control over who gets in.

And as some have said its their right not to vote, democracy is about more than voting, its about contacting MP's and govt depts on legislation etc etc. Those who don't vote may partake in democracy more than those that just vote once every 3 years & think that's their bit done

[fivebob]

Forced coalition could stop governments like national selling all the countries assets off.

But why should the government be in business in direct competition with NZ companies?

Fair enough that they should run things that no one else can make a profit from, or provide a service to the country, like public transport and maybe the railways, but the have no place in competitive business. Their job is to govern not to compete for business on what would be a very unlevel playing field.

Think labor has done well with the student loans,

Why are there student loans anyway??? Because they can't or won't fund the education system properly, so it's got to be user pays.

kiwibank

Yep that works, time to sell it off and recover the investment, just like they did with PostBank. If the buyer doesn't continue to run the business to the same ideals, then the government can just create a new Kiwibank, and start the process over again.

airnz

They only bought back into AirNZ because it was about to collapse due to The failure of Ansett in Australia, not from any high ideals about keeping in public ownership. Share price has recovered and six months ago would've been the time to sell it, guess they'll have to wait till the sharemarket recovers again.

and there is potential with rail if managed right.

Rail is was and always will be a lemon, it's inefficient, expensive and requires major capital investment. However it's a perfect asset for a government to hold, as long as they don't legislate to make it more competitive like they used to do in that bad old days of NZ Rail.

I dont see why more things can be transported by rail rather than 100 trucks.

That's because, with the exception of some very specialised cargo like logs and coal, a train would be lucky to carry the volume of 10 trucks, let alone 100, and trains only go as far as the tracks take them. That means that goods have to be transported to the rail head by trucks and delivered to their final destination by another truck. Loading and unloading creates far more inefficiency, opportunity for damage and pilfering that the old NZ Rail was famous for.

Think national has good ideas but it would be a shame to see money makers like kiwibank go.

But that's just it, fair enough that the government should build the business, but at some point they should sell it off to release the money to where it can do more good, unless it's performing a public service.

Why privatise them fully, so someone else can make money off it?

Because governments govern, they don't run businesses

[Jet_boy01]

Good man Fivebob, glad someone made a bit of a stand on that issue of privatisation. It's a well known fact that private enterprises generally do alot better than their government owned counterparts. There is no real incentive for a government run company to make profits like there is with a privately owned company. With the countries current economic position it seems like Helen is just spending up all her surplus so it looks like John can do nothing with regards to tax cuts, kick starting the economy etc.

Some people need to learn a few basic economics before they go bagging privitisation and the like TBH.

Student allowances? I'm a student and I don't support them, for one by the time I leave uni I won't even get one because it will be till 2012 before all caps are released and everyone gets one. Its simply not really that neccessary, just another drain on the tax payers money to win 30,000 student votes.

Disregarding all the lies and silly little tactics each party are playing, I think John has a better idea of how to turn our economy around, make it much better than what Helen did in her time, and generally make NZ alot better.

[d1 mule]

a vote for anyone other than labour or national is just a waste

i completely agree. and also completely agree with fivebob!!

been out of the country for a couple a weeks so dont no the latest news but im goin nats....



To Quote Method
"if one party can govern alone then it is definately a waste of time that any other parties are there. And if one party is governing the rest of the seats, and thus the rest of the countries opinions (represented by various parties) are non existant. Can hardly call that democratic at all"

^^sounds an awful lot like the states to me......

[pc]

Good man Fivebob, glad someone made a bit of a stand on that issue of privatisation. It's a well known fact that private enterprises generally do alot better than their government owned counterparts. There is no real incentive for a government run company to make profits like there is with a privately owned company.

Maybe you could point me to some of these "well known facts" that prove that the privatisation of the various old SOE services has benefited Kiwis with either better and/or cheaper services.