Received a Ticket whilst not speeding

pjay · Post by **pjay** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:23 pm

No angry, just state the facts.

2001 Toyota Gaia · Post by **BlakJak** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:54 pm

Sadly you do have to challenge it if you want any chance at all at justice.
Whilst paying up is the simplest option it isnt the cheapest (getting off = cheap) however it's about degrees of risk.

In your seat however were I adamant that I was innocent I would pull every trick possible to prove it; if you still can't prove it then it just goes to show how screwed up the system really is.

First step is to challenge the ticket in writing. If they insist, then court is the next best bet. You could even risk engaging counsel, if found innocent you could do them for costs.. (I think)..

I'd be the hell-raging if someone tried to do me for something I wasn't guilty of...

.. OTOH if i'm guilty I pay up, loophole or not, generally speaking. It's those who fight for loopholes left right and centre that make it harder for the legitimately innocent to fight their way to acquittal.

ollieboy · Post by **ollieboy** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:46 pm

Yeah I would write a nice letter stating your beliefs of going speed limit etc. If you were actually going the speed you say on your speedo then you might want to look into getting it checked by a speedo tester. (Parrotts in Christchurch do it, not sure anywhere else) It could possibly be wrong. Don't listen to people who say you won't get off and the police will favour another policeman. This isn't true, everyone has the right to a fair, unbiased appeal. This year several of my friends have got off speeding tickets where there was doubt in the situation, as in this one. I even had a friend get off sustained loss of traction because they were subject to a fair appeals process.

Blakjak, you can't claim costs in New Zealand for Criminal proceedings (this is criminal as it carries a penalty of fine) but you can claim costs in civil proceedings. (You are eligible for legal aid though, if it applies in your situation.)

MercuryFree · Post by **MercuryFree** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:04 pm

ollieboy wrote:Blakjak, you can't claim costs in New Zealand for Criminal proceedings (this is criminal as it carries a penalty of fine) but you can claim costs in civil proceedings. (You are eligible for legal aid though, if it applies in your situation.)

Incorrect. Costs in Criminal Cases Act 1967 states:

S5: Costs of successful defendant

*

(1) Where any defendant is acquitted of an offence or where the information charging him with an offence is dismissed or withdrawn, whether upon the merits or otherwise, or where he is discharged under section 167 of the Summary Proceedings Act 1957 the Court may, subject to any regulations made under this Act, order that he be paid such sum as it thinks just and reasonable towards the costs of his defence.

GTCRSHR · Post by **GTCRSHR** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:56 pm

do you know if your speedo is accurate ? (doubtfull that it is 10+km out )

ollieboy · Post by **ollieboy** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:19 pm

MercuryFree wrote:
ollieboy wrote:Blakjak, you can't claim costs in New Zealand for Criminal proceedings (this is criminal as it carries a penalty of fine) but you can claim costs in civil proceedings. (You are eligible for legal aid though, if it applies in your situation.)

Incorrect. Costs in Criminal Cases Act 1967 states:

S5: Costs of successful defendant

*

(1) Where any defendant is acquitted of an offence or where the information charging him with an offence is dismissed or withdrawn, whether upon the merits or otherwise, or where he is discharged under section 167 of the Summary Proceedings Act 1957 the Court may, subject to any regulations made under this Act, order that he be paid such sum as it thinks just and reasonable towards the costs of his defence.

Wait a minute. This isn't what my law lecturer told me, I specifically asked that question, I just checked my notes. This is madness, I'm going to have to ask them again. :!:

sergei · Post by **sergei** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:04 pm

I would challenge them. I would taken down the following things in front of the cop:
1) badge number
2) officer's name
3) cop car plate number (just in case)
4) I would inform the cop that I know(!) that I wasn't speeding and I do not accept the fine. I would inform the cop that I will write every where I can and lay as many complaints as possible, that I will involve the press and politicians in this matter. That my driving history would confirm that I do have clean licence with no demerit points and no fines what so ever. I would escalate the whole issue (peacefully) so it would be a hassle for that cop to harass me. I would make things as difficult as possible, even if it means to spend a night at the precinct.

This is ridiculous but cops have way too much power on issuing tickets.

pjay · Post by **pjay** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:25 pm

sergei wrote:4) I would inform the cop that I know(!) that I wasn't speeding and I do not accept the fine. I would inform the cop that I will write every where I can and lay as many complaints as possible, that I will involve the press and politicians in this matter. That my driving history would confirm that I do have clean licence with no demerit points and no fines what so ever. I would escalate the whole issue (peacefully) so it would be a hassle for that cop to harass me. I would make things as difficult as possible, even if it means to spend a night at the precinct.

Have you ever been arrested before? And used this kind of attitude toward the police?

Thats the kind of stuff that pushes them to find ANYTHING to do you for. Best thing to do is just simple co-operate, and escalate things without the officers knowledge.

When it comes to court, 9 times out of 10, the officer wont show because its so insignificant.

BUT if youve already told him

"that I wasn't speeding and I do not accept the fine. I would inform the cop that I will write every where I can and lay as many complaints as possible, that I will involve the press and politicians in this matter. That my driving history would confirm that I do have clean licence with no demerit points and no fines what so ever. I would escalate the whole issue (peacefully) so it would be a hassle for that cop to harass me. I would make things as difficult as possible, even if it means to spend a night at the precinct."

Then he will show up and the prosecuting officer would try get your ass for something. Anything. Just so they can be right.

Ever asked for a badge number also? Or the officers name? The kind of cops that give out silly fines like this dont give a rats about badge numbers or their names. They dont give a rats about the person they are ticketing. And they sure as hell dont give a rats about attitude.

All they care about is their power. I hate those cops. But i love beating them in court.

/rant

edit- lol, a ss becomes buttocks

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:39 pm

um
their number is on the ticket....
and i dont think they have to tell you their name.

gtpornstar · Post by **gtpornstar** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:39 pm

ok let me save you a bit of time.

the exact same thing happened to me, i had a radar. I saw the cop a mile away and checked my speed, I was actually running in a new motor so knew i was not speeding. I get pulled over etc and a ticket. doing 65 in a 50 or something like that ... fine - 120.
Difference between me and you ?
I asked for the speed reading and he wouldnt give it.
So I went to the car and he had no lock on my speed !!!
Absolutely nothing !!!

So i wrote in, they didnt accept and decided to go to court.
I would be loosing way more than the fine amount for the time i had to go defend myself but wanted justice as i wasnt speeding.

Long storey short ?
His word against mine.
He said he saw the reading but didnt press a button to lock my speed.
He produced his current speedo calibration(not required to keep it on hand)
My speedo had no current calibration
He even lied about there being no other cars on the road when the reading was taken, there was.
He couldnt show me his reading but according to judge was not required to do so.

So ........... I lost the case !

B1NZ · Post by **B1NZ** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:15 am

gtpornstar wrote:ok let me save you a bit of time.

the exact same thing happened to me, i had a radar. I saw the cop a mile away and checked my speed, I was actually running in a new motor so knew i was not speeding. I get pulled over etc and a ticket. doing 65 in a 50 or something like that ... fine - 120.
Difference between me and you ?
I asked for the speed reading and he wouldnt give it.
So I went to the car and he had no lock on my speed !!!
Absolutely nothing !!!

So i wrote in, they didnt accept and decided to go to court.
I would be loosing way more than the fine amount for the time i had to go defend myself but wanted justice as i wasnt speeding.

Long storey short ?
His word against mine.
He said he saw the reading but didnt press a button to lock my speed.
He produced his current speedo calibration(not required to keep it on hand)
My speedo had no current calibration
He even lied about there being no other cars on the road when the reading was taken, there was.
He couldnt show me his reading but according to judge was not required to do so.

So ........... I lost the case !

Judges generally take these things on a case by case basis (well they should) What was your driving record like, any previous fines etc?
From what I have read this guy has never had even a small speeding fine, IMO he should fight it in court and keep his driving record intact, and I'm sure the judge will take this into consideration :idea:

2001 Toyota Gaia · Post by **BlakJak** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:09 am

This thread illustrates exactly how stacked the situation is...

sergei · Post by **sergei** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:00 am

I as said cops could go on false ticket rampage and no one in the power to fight this...
It is stupid for law to assume that the police is not corrupt. Who cares that they are sworn officers, like that works, if you are a liar nothing will stop you from lying when you are being sworn be it on the bible, flag or mothers grave, there are plenty (majority, I believe, usually religious as well) of people who have no morals.

method · Post by **method** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:52 am

there was a case when a guy successfully defended a speeding ticket. He had a data logger and proved that he was not speeding.

Turns out the cop used a previous reading on his car.

MercuryFree · Post by **MercuryFree** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:57 am

gtpornstar wrote:Difference between me and you ?
I asked for the speed reading and he wouldnt give it.
So I went to the car and he had no lock on my speed !!!
Absolutely nothing !!!

The policewoman had a lock on a speed @ 63, but it sure as hell wasn't me.

B1NZ wrote:From what I have read this guy has never had even a small speeding fine, IMO he should fight it in court and keep his driving record intact, and I'm sure the judge will take this into consideration

I've had one speeding ticket before ever. Overtaking fail. That one of course was obviously me so I paid it no worries

DexGT · Post by **DexGT** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:59 pm

Is there a way to find out what the previous tickets issued by this cop on that day were ? , would be "interesting" if they were for the same speed at around the same time

gtpornstar · Post by **gtpornstar** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:25 pm

B1NZ wrote:
Judges generally take these things on a case by case basis (well they should) What was your driving record like, any previous fines etc?
From what I have read this guy has never had even a small speeding fine, IMO he should fight it in court and keep his driving record intact, and I'm sure the judge will take this into consideration

I would agree with you if you were talking about sentencing and then working out what was the punishment, however when determining if someone was guilty or not, shouldnt it be the same if someone has had a long list of convictions or someone that has just done it for the first time? Otherwise it would mean that a person that has commited fraud once, will always be proven guilty if he is brought before a court even if he didnt do it ?

Basically when I went to court there was no mention on if i had previous offences and i am almost certain that it doesnt come into the picture until sentencing ... in my case it was just that the fine stood and i had to pay court costs.

MercuryFree wrote:
gtpornstar wrote:Difference between me and you ?
I asked for the speed reading and he wouldnt give it.
So I went to the car and he had no lock on my speed !!!
Absolutely nothing !!!

The policewoman had a lock on a speed @ 63, but it sure as hell wasn't me.

What I meant was they had less evidence on me, as in, in court they established that a speed was not locked for me.

There was a case before me, it was actually quite funny, a guy came in with a whole bunch of calculations. Basically a cop had given him a ticket for speeding based on the follow a speeder for 4 seconds rule.
the 'speeder' proved that the cop was lieing and that the cop could not have sped up to catch him, follow him for 4 seconds at that speed and then haul on the brakes to slow down within that given space of road.
The cop hesitated so much and eventually just had the same answer for all questions = " all i know is i did follow you for 4 seconds and i did see the speed of 70 on my speedo at all times "
He didnt get off the ticket even though he proved the cop was lieing !! Basically in as i said before if it is cops word against yours and you have no other proof like a passenger in your car or data logger then you will ALWAYS LOOSE !

MercuryFree · Post by **MercuryFree** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:46 pm

Well, over 2 months later (lol) and I now have a big stack (like, 4) of identical 'reminder notices' all of which are worded like "we know you're going to pay, do it now", bloody extortionate bastards.

I sent them a 1.5 page letter complaining about the ridiculousness of the situation but the guy who wrote me back says that because it comes down to a 'difference of opinion between me and the reporting officer' he is 'unable to adjudicate on the matter'.

Faith in police force: Gone.

So basically I just wait for them to get around to summonsing me or not?

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:08 pm

the longer you wait, the more the add to it
thats how ppl clock up several K worth of fines
only way to make it go away is to go to court. or pay it

MercuryFree · Post by **MercuryFree** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:14 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:the longer you wait, the more the add to it
thats how ppl clock up several K worth of fines
only way to make it go away is to go to court. or pay it

How can they add to it if they haven't proven me guilty? It's still the same amount in each reminder notice they send