Auckland city brought to a standstill

[Bling]

Keep it on the topic, anymore quoting and arguments and i'll send you to your rooms and lock the thread.

Bloody sad situation, young guy looks to have been a good sort, RIP.

[Mr Revhead]

was what the media wrote. I dont believe a scrap of it.

Man steals handbag.. a handbag
Cops chase him. Turns into 20 cars and a chopper. then sh*t hits the fan and guns bust out

WRONG

So, why don't you enslightent us to what is RIGHT? You can't because nobody really knows.

well if you dont know, how come your so certain that the police are at fault?

[iOnic]

was what the media wrote. I dont believe a scrap of it.

Man steals handbag.. a handbag
Cops chase him. Turns into 20 cars and a chopper. then sh*t hits the fan and guns bust out

WRONG

So, why don't you enslightent us to what is RIGHT? You can't because nobody really knows.

the police didn't chase him because he stole a handbag they chased him because he was spotted tearing through 50km/h areas at over double the limit and when police attempted to pull him over (as they do) they were greeted with the pointy end of a .22

it wasn't a case of "omfg this guy has stolen a handbag lets set 20 cars on him AND THEN discover he just so happens to have a gun"

[kim0663]

so what happens to the hijacked skyline? like to the owner...

man i would be PISSED if that was my car. Looks pretty straight too (past tence). Id want that c**t dead, bring him back alive, kill him again, then bring him back alive and send him to death sentance plus a bit more so i agree with lucas here.

cop should have just shot him in the head as soon as he pulled a gun.

We don't have a death sentance here in NZ do we? maybe it's time.

a few years ago, this dude tried to steal my car, got into a fight, he grabbed a knife, tried to hit me and shit with it, luckily police came, guy arrested. So that should be like aggravated robbery, attempted murder and more? (he didn't get charged for attempted murder as i didn't get any cuts/stabs from the knife.... thats bs) He had previous records as well

The bastard only got a two year sentance and i highly doubt he would be required to do those two full years.

I am inclined to think that NZ justice system is just too soft and these assholes just keep getting more ideas thinking that they'll be let off easily (which actually is the case)

[Heylin]

My friend Greg Carvell shot a guy in his gun store who was threatning to kill him with a machete.

The guy who got shot was imprisoned for 2 years (but is now paroled) he also got legal aid, Greg ended up paying $30,000 in legal fees to defend himself.

I should be saying this but the police (not officers, the ones higher up) are a pack of bastards who have no clue about what real policing is.

Our justice system and rules of engagement put the power in the criminals hands, if someone bursts into your home, or gun shop , or dairy with a knife, you shouldnt have to be thinking "Hmmmmm whats an appropraite level of force", "Will the police be ok with this response"

By the time you follow police instructions for dealing with the situation (which by the way are a joke) you will be dead.

But as we know the police are the only people who can have guns for self defence (or they think they are), they are governed by the same laws as you and me, the only difference is they dont prosecute their own.

Half the reason that young guy is dead is because police cant shoot for shit, and the regular pistol \ rifle owner in NZ has more training.

My friend in the US sent me these posters.

http://www.gunpointshop.com/Posters.html

[snwtoy]

the police didn't chase him because he stole a handbag they chased him because he was spotted tearing through 50km/h areas at over double the limit and when police attempted to pull him over (as they do) they were greeted with the pointy end of a .22

it wasn't a case of "omfg this guy has stolen a handbag lets set 20 cars on him AND THEN discover he just so happens to have a gun"

This does appear to be the case now. Initial reports suggested that the chase started after the handbag incident - that's what got me so annoyed to start with.

[RunningRich]

Struggle to see what your point is, seems like a rant. Greg Carvell was not charged with defending himself. He was charged under the firearms act for keeping a loaded handgun in a easily accessible location (ie. unsecured, in a draw wasn't it?). As someone who should have an intimate knowledge of the firearms act is was appropriate that he was charged.

Just wanted to make it clear he was *not* charged for shooting the nutter. Clearly not a good shot, should have killed him!

The NRA style posters you post make it clear that the US is a very safe place where having a gun makes you safe from attack. Yeah right The rate of accidental killings in the US is huge (toddlers blowing their heads off) not to mention the easy access for nutter emos to go kill their teacher. Not the best example of a good working gun society!

If you have a problem with the way Police do things our apologist society is to blame. A cop defends himself from a madman with a golfclub and he gets crucified for years, whereas another gets violently beaten to death and everyone has forgotten a week later.

That said, wake up in the middle of the night with someone in your locked house and my view is that the Police should congradulate you as they carry the bullet ridden dead body away.

Same deal goes for situations like Friday where people endanged the public running from the Police. They had adequate time to organise armed offiicers on overbridges to shoot him. I realise this isn't hollywood for them to shoot him right between the eyes, but a high power round through the windscreen may may him realise the gravity of running...

[ihavelift]

^^ couldn't agree more

cop should have just shot him in the head as soon as he pulled a gun.
hopefully now with a new government in some of the regulations will be lifted, or at least modified so that they can do their job more effectivly... which happens to be serve and protect the public.

and if your caught with class A drugs thats a bullet in the head to.

Bye bye Millie Holmes then.

Have final details been released yet? I realy want to know who killed the innocent bystander

[Mr Revhead]

the police have to look hard at the actions of someone who shoots an offender (including there own)
last thing we want is vigilante groups runnning rife (well, it'd be ok, but only if I get a go )

other wise some misguided youth sneaking around at night in back yards and not much else gets blown away etc.

the problem with shooting him from over bridges as he's driving, is at that times he's driving.... yeah he was firing out of the car at times. but justifying deadly force would be hard in that situation.
however whens he stopped and was firing at police etc in what was basically a shoot out, well there was no other choice.

[Heylin]

The rate of accidental killings in the US is huge

Actually per head of population its about the same as NZ. Also most of the stats you read are from Anti Gun Lobby, who define children as 0 - 18, when the legal definition is actually lower.

This then includes a larger group thus making the stats look worse than they actually are.

In regards to Greg sure they went for the highest charge they could, but I gaurantee you the police would have went for any firearms charge they could have.

- excessive force (the guy only had a knife) a big one.
- discharging a pistol outside of an approved range (not test firing)
- carrying a firearm outside the curtails of your dwelling

The fact is police feel they are the only people authorised to use guns in self defence, when if fact if you read the 1983 arms act (not the code), and the 1961 crimes act youd be surprised what you can legally do in regards to protecting yourself in your own home.

They had adequate time to organise armed offiicers on overbridges to shoot him

Yeah but police general instructions wouldnt allow them to do so.

[RunningRich]

the problem with shooting him from over bridges as he's driving, is at that times he's driving.... yeah he was firing out of the car at times. but justifying deadly force would be hard in that situation.

Typical liberal rubbish we are used to from Mr Revhead!!

The Police just can't win in this country. The family of the dead guy are getting stuck into the Police in the Herald, absolutely no mention of the guy they were chasing. They get accused of recklessness for chasing people, yet would be bollocked if he turned down Ponsonby road and killed innocent people.

My view is that running from the cops at high speed (with other cars on the road) is up there with running through a mall with a gun. Deadly force is jsutified in either situation.

[Mr Revhead]

yeah im gettign soft in my old age!

well running at high speed is akin to randomly discharging a weapon in some ways.... you dont know what/who your going to hit

[flygt4]

i blame video games.

its clearly a scene from grand theft auto we've all played many times before

[Mr.Phreak]

And threads/conversations like this are half the problem, people going off half cocked by incomplete and incorrect media reports that are sensationalised to sell the story.

[Dell'Orto]

Best. Picture. Ever

[Mr Revhead]

And threads/conversations like this are half the problem, people going off half cocked by incomplete and incorrect media reports that are sensationalised to sell the story.

yep, or not reading the reports accurately

[snwtoy]

And threads/conversations like this are half the problem, people going off half cocked by incomplete and incorrect media reports that are sensationalised to sell the story.

yep, or not reading the reports accurately

Still, it seems that the general school of thought is that giving police more power is the way to go. While this may seem like a solution, it's really only a bandaid fix which leads to escalation of the violence level unless the root of the issue is also addressed. It's sad to me to see that because it's cheaper and more sensational to present the band-aid fix as a solution, the underlying issues in society are not addressed. In some ways the Labour govt were/are onto a good thing by targetting the lower socio-economic population of NZ with their policies like working for families (not to say that offenders always come from lower s-e backgrounds, but my impression is that most do) - it's just a pity their implementation fails.

[Mr Revhead]

im not so much in favour of increasing police powers generally, though in some areas yes.

but more im against the knee jerk reaction of instantly blaming the police when theres a shooting or accident in a chase.

[Brick]

What i dont understand is the AOS are trained, now how could the officer who shot the boy be that much of a lousey shot.

[Mr Revhead]

well, i doubt it was a "lousy shot" obviously it had a lousy result, but for instance we dont know if the round passed through the crim then hit the victim. or if it only just missed the crim. or for that matter if it was a ricochet.
or if the officer tripped and it went wild.


in a combat, coz this is what it effectively was, unfortunately shit happens.
when a shot is hurried and done under pressure your accuracy goes to hell.
i remember my first speed shots with a pistol. couldnt hit the side of a barn! yet when i had time i was a perfect shot.
im sure when the investigation is concluded we will find out exactly what "shit" was in this case. and if the officer was negligent he will be facing man slaughter charges.