Did I blow my motor?

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Postby RS13 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:25 pm

Have you checked the VVTi pulley? Maybe pull each plug, check them then look down the holes and check the condition of the pistons.
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Postby Dell'Orto » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:35 pm

Leiden wrote:Do you think it could be a broken ring? If so wouldnt that leave bits and pieces in the exhaust manifold?


Unlikely, they tend to get smeared into the bores instead.
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Postby johndoe1025 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:36 pm

yeh, your car would run like ARSE, and you wouldnt have very good compression either
EP82 GT-went mega hard for completely stock, 15.09 quarter, gone now :(

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Postby sergei » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:38 pm

Do a compression test, it will show you a broken ring/ring land.
Also lots of smoky blow by will be a sign as well.
Also it will run on 3 most of the time due to insufficient compression.
Also it will burn oil and smoke out of exhaust as well (if damaged enough).

As for the cam gear you could pull all the caps off and have a look for damage, over tighten cap will have scouring marks on it. Next time get a proper torque wrench to do the caps as +/- 10Nm when they are 15Nm (for example, I am not sure what sort of value it should be, but I assume it is actually low) is not good enough.
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Postby johndoe1025 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:40 pm

its something silly like 7nm or something i think, then quarter turn plus quarter turn?
EP82 GT-went mega hard for completely stock, 15.09 quarter, gone now :(

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Postby Leiden » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:00 pm

Ok so you guys recommend a compression test?

How do you check the VVTi pulley, do you short it out or apply 12v to it?

I'll check the camshaft caps also, would they make a tapping?

Its not a deep tapping, quite tinny really, like a rattling headshield sound (but its not :))

Couple more videos with kind of better sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joOgjD0HyZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2T1Z_y2eRU
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Postby barryogen » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:05 pm

side issue...
are you still running on the piss poor tune or have you had it tuned properly?
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Postby Leiden » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:08 pm

It was running the Greddy Bolt On Turbo basemap which was running rich due to the larger injectors so I reduced the values by 37% and it seemed to be running sweet,

Mechanic said that if it was running lean then it would have been running hot and the temp guage would have been up
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Postby Lloyd » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:17 pm

Not always the case. Lean will go hot, but likely to do damage inside first.
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Postby Leiden » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:54 pm

I dont think it was running lean, the exhaust was quite sooty and car would bog in the low rpm's which I thought would indicate its running rich?
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Postby fivebob » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:56 pm

Bogging down and backfires tend to indicate a lean engine not a rich one.
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Postby johndoe1025 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:08 pm

wouldnt it go rich initially, then lean out as it comes on boost?
EP82 GT-went mega hard for completely stock, 15.09 quarter, gone now :(

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Postby Leiden » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:40 pm

I used an injection duty cycle calculator to make sure that things were staying on the safe side and aparently they were,

Went over heaps of logs from the emanage and calculated the resulting air fuel ratio making sure it stayed in the low 10's

I dont know, I guess that it went lean and cracked a piston ring?
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Postby johndoe1025 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:42 pm

u wont no its done a ring till you do a compression test or take off the head, do the simple tests first
EP82 GT-went mega hard for completely stock, 15.09 quarter, gone now :(

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Postby fivebob » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:07 pm

Leiden wrote:I used an injection duty cycle calculator to make sure that things were staying on the safe side and aparently they were,

Went over heaps of logs from the emanage and calculated the resulting air fuel ratio making sure it stayed in the low 10's

Did you use a wideband O2 sensor to measuare the actual AFR, or did you just guessimate where it would be?

Also what did you do about acceleration enrichment, overun fuel cut and the other fuel related settings?
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Postby Leiden » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:17 am

I just used a calculator that can work out an estimate duty cycle using engine rpm, boost pressure, engine ve, injector size, injector dead time, and a few other things,

I left the ve at 100% thinking that it would be very rare to see that much efficiency...the calculator works on N/A efficiency + boost pressure.

Then I looked at the logs from the emanage, and worked out where the corrected duty cycle should roughly be and went from there,

I tried to make sure it was staying on the safe side of rich rather than safe side of lean as I know the map wasn't the best,

In fact it was the Greddy Turbo Kit basemap scaled in 10% decrements until output duty cycle matched the calculator's output. I also logged knock signal and didn't detect any at all,

I'm about to download the log from the ecu and see what was happening,

Its been suggested that a siezed waterpump bearing could be the problem, Its just shy of 160,000km's, last timing belt was at 80,000km's and I dont even know if they did the water pump,

Is there any way to tell?
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Postby Akane » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:59 am

HRT wrote:
Akane wrote:And if it was a big end, your car would be dead by now, dead big ends don't last very long. My MR2 lasted hm... 1km before it piston slapped.


I'm assuming you mean the piston hit the head. Just so you know, thats not piston slap



Woops used the wrong terminology, yea I mean the piston "slapping" against the head due to the crank bearing being totally wastified.

Those were the days.
No "stance", no "hellaflush", none of that bullshit. Nothing but no grip on full boost.
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Postby Malcolm » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:39 am

I would definitely be running a compression check, if you've damaged anything then it could quite possibly be a ringland, as they're known to be the first thing to go on a poorly tuned boosted 3s.
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Postby fivebob » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:07 am

Leiden wrote:I just used a calculator that can work out an estimate duty cycle using engine rpm, boost pressure, engine ve, injector size, injector dead time, and a few other things,

I left the ve at 100% thinking that it would be very rare to see that much efficiency...the calculator works on N/A efficiency + boost pressure.

Then I looked at the logs from the emanage, and worked out where the corrected duty cycle should roughly be and went from there,

I tried to make sure it was staying on the safe side of rich rather than safe side of lean as I know the map wasn't the best,

So, lets see if I understand what you have done...

To me it appears that you started with an unknown state of tune, then changed it by some random amount from calculations that bear little resemblance of the engines true VE, and never checked what you were doing with a Wideband O2 sensor???

Is that an accurate depiction of what was done?

There's an oft (mis)quoted saying that goes... "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" (it's actually "A little learning... But I digress). I think you maybe proving the truth of that.

In fact it was the Greddy Turbo Kit basemap scaled in 10% decrements until output duty cycle matched the calculator's output. I also logged knock signal and didn't detect any at all,


Do you have any WB O2 data with the standard injectors to show what AFR the engine was running at with this basemap on the stock injectors?

What did you log? The KNK pin signal or the ECU's response to knock? I doubt that logging the KNK signal would be of much use as knock is only detectable for about 20° of crank rotation. which is around 1msec @3000rpm. Even my Motec M800 can't log that accurately enough to detect knock. :?
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Postby 79rolla » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:49 am

its sympol but cheak all pullys (and fan if its not electric) incase something has come loose (seen it done by a micanic once lol)
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