Performance engine builds

[iOnic]

Unless you want under 300whp I can't see any reason why you'd choose the Gen 3 over the Gen2 you already have. They are both as capable as each other after this point. About the only reason you'd specifically go out and buy one is they're more often in better condition and newer than Gen2's.....which counts for very little if the engine is going to be opened up and rebuilt either way.

[fivebob]

Gen 3 pistons are quite good and cheap.

Gen 3 Pistons are no better, or worse, than Gen II or Gen IV pistons, they all break ringlands if you wind the boost up too much on the stock ignition timing. The only (IMHO very minor) advantage they thave is a slightly lower compression ratio.

shot peen the rods

Why bother they're already strong enough and I think they might even be shot peened from the factory.

I see gen 1 shares the same CR (8.5:1) so not sure if pistons are the same? Gen 2 has a lower CR of 8.1:1

Nope. Gen II is 8.8:1, Gen III is 8.5:1, and Gen IV is 9.0:1

is there any difference in valve cut outs on the gen2 and gen3 pistons? seeing as they have different heads. valve angle maybe?

The head geometry and combustion chamber is the same, the only thing that really changed in the heads was the ports (and a slightoly more agressive intake cam).

If you really have money to spend and want to do somthing the BEST thing i did was buy some tein adjustables.. Not only does the car handle better but it also feels faster beacuse it reduces the saggy feeling when you plant your foot..

That's the best advice so far, unless you want to live life 1/4 mile at a time, leave the engine alone and upgrade the handling, much more fun per $ spent.

Unless you want under 300whp I can't see any reason why you'd choose the Gen 3 over the Gen2 you already have. They are both as capable as each other after this point.

Because,IMO, Gen III is easier to get HP out of and will cost less in the long run if you're going for under 400HP.

[iOnic]

Unless you want under 300whp I can't see any reason why you'd choose the Gen 3 over the Gen2 you already have. They are both as capable as each other after this point.

Because,IMO, Gen III is easier to get HP out of and will cost less in the long run if you're going for under 400HP.

Thanks for the reply about the pistons. First time I'd ever heard of Gen3 pistons being "better" than the Gen2 items.

What differences between the two make the Gen3 easier to get hp out of after the 300hp mark? I was under the impression that the 540's and ct20b both had to go if you wanted over 300hp? I know the head flows marginally better on the Gen3 but is the difference really that great?

Just trying to see the sense in binning a perfectly good Gen2 and going out and buying a (not cheap) Gen3 and cracking it open to get a rebuild (not cheap either).......wouldn't it make more sense to make use of the engine he has now and rebuild that instead? Either way fuel/turbo/ecu would have to be upgraded....

Learning a lot here sorry for all the questions fivebob

[DeeCee]

better oil reticulation for starters

I've been over this with adydas and boosted in the past, regarding a foundation to start from and the gen3 is a better place to start.

And you wouldn't need to crack open an engine for 350hp either.

[iOnic]

I know you wouldn't need to crack the engine open for that power level but the OP has already stated that he wants to get the engine rebuilt either way.

Yes the oil system is better on the Gen3...but does that make the Gen3 more capable of producing 350hp than the Gen2 or easier to make 350hp with? As far as I can tell that's a point on the reliability side of things and not so much on the power production side.

This is all good info to keep for the future been screwing around with Gen2's for too long Sorry if the questions are getting annoying haha one's gotta learn somehow I guess

[fivebob]

I know you wouldn't need to crack the engine open for that power level but the OP has already stated that he wants to get the engine rebuilt either way.

Yes the oil system is better on the Gen3...but does that make the Gen3 more capable of producing 350hp than the Gen2 or easier to make 350hp with? As far as I can tell that's a point on the reliability side of things and not so much on the power production side.

The ease of modification to get to sub 400HP is all about the ports in the head... IMO the Gen II ports are far too big for good power delivery, and removing the TVIS (which is what a lot of people seem to do) just makes the engine even more peaky. The Gen III's smaller ports keep the air velocity up so the torque curve is much nicer. At extreme power levels (500HP+) the smaller ports are still just as good and there seems to be little difference in max power output between the engines.

[iOnic]

The ease of modification to get to sub 400HP is all about the ports in the head... IMO the Gen II ports are far too big for good power delivery, and removing the TVIS (which is what a lot of people seem to do) just make sthe engine even more peaky. The Gen III's smaller ports keep the air velocity up so the torque curve is much nicer. At extreme power levels (500HP+) the smaller ports are still just as good and there seems to be little difference in max power output between the engines.

This is exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks mate

[DeeCee]

A refresher iOnic

Well, realistically I am not after huge power, always just fancied a reliable street driven 350hp, which obviously is not that hard to achieve. So I guess a pretty basic build would be all that would be required. Dont know if I would be worried about cams etc. With that power figure in mind, would it pretty much be a case of making the internals bulletproof, forged rods and pistons?

Reliable
street driven
basic build

I read that and big talk of all sorts of changes and it just isn't required.

350hp is an arbitary goal and in unless there is real use of the power ie drag or circuit, then the power is pretty much unusable on the street unless its illegal drags.

The easiest way I see it is to drop in a gen3 3sgte, chuck on a DPR kit, open up the airways and ensure that fueling is up to par and do the suspension like Cliff has suggested.

That is a good combination that won't overextend the budget, will be a good streeter and go very well.

[iOnic]

Thanks DeeCee All good info to know

Last question (okay so maybe I've had a couple )

Does anyone know this guy? or is he a member here? Is that a Gen2 or Gen3 engine?

http://www.performancecar.co.nz/article ... 133?page=2

[DeeCee]

Its a gen2 from the appearence of the rocker cover

[thornz]

Again, thanks fr all teh advice, allot to digest, but great to have a solid grounding in what is and what isnt required.

Out of boredom at work, I emailed toyota asking for a price on a CT20B turbo, who wants to take a stab at what price they quoted me?

[Mr Revhead]

depends on the dealer you emailed!
i bet $2500 and $8000

[thornz]

depends on the dealer you emailed!
i bet $2500 and $8000

Nope, higher

Try $9691!

Tell em he's dreaming

[sergei]

Hey you can make 300Hp out of Gen1 engine no problem, even with "CT20B" (steel). Just have to sort out ECU and injectors (and overboost problem with CT20B).

[frost]

well that answers a lot thanks everyone. back to the shed.

[deaf_rattle]

shot peen the rods

Why bother they're already strong enough and I think they might even be shot peened from the factory.

because its cheaper than buying named branded ones...
the 7mgte rods are fairly beefer as well, but i figured, since they were out, i might as well get them shotpeened to be on the safe side.

each to their own though, for the money spent, i think it was worthwhile