4AGE Tuning

[Vita]

I've ferreted through a lot of threads but can't quite find information on what I'm looking for.

Basically I may be coming into having a 92 FX-GT silver top.
What I'm looking to do is to get it running efficiently instead of the base maps that may not quite be right for the age and rebuilt bits.

What is the recommended tuning piggyback ECU, or hand held for these?

Do they have a wideband o2 sensor or will a LC-1 be needed?

Can someone point me in the right direction?

[AceSniper]

they have narrow band

[ChaosAD]

If your the planning on doing everything yourself and dont mind doing a bit of reading then the megasquirt ecu is a good option.

The fx has a 4 wire narowband so an lc1 or lm2 would be a good idea.

If you want to take it into a dyno to get it tuned then go with what the dyno operator is familiar with. Alternatively the new links sound like a good unit.

I wouldnt piss around with a piggyback. They have limited adjustability and mess with the tinimg.
An emanage ultimate piggyback is a similar price to a link.

[Vita]

well.. there is a LOT of reading on that megasquirt!

I've read conflicting information on the SAFC units but couldn't find a pros/cons list on them. From what I understand though this is the sort of thing I want to be able to do - basic adjustment on the already existing ecu map - although I don't want the timing issue.
hmm, tell me if I'm going off on a wild tangent that is a waste of time

[tsoob]

+1 LINK

[ROBODISCO_20v]

I've read conflicting information on the SAFC units but couldn't find a pros/cons list on them.

1st gen SAFC is rubbish. I was told by st hi-tec that they do weird things like cause random stalling etc. Apexi SAFCII & Neo are the go. Had a SAFCII on my black top with no problems at all & gave a nice power gain, especially at lower rpm where the 20v's need it.
One piece of advice, don't try tune it yourself. Get it dyno tuned by someone who knows what they're doing like st hi-tec.

[MAGN1T]

You only get timing issues with piggybacks if you're upsizing the injectors. That's because you're tricking the ECU into thinking the load is less than it really is. The timing error is proportional to the % that you're upsizing the injectors by.
Nor is there anything wrong with the 1st get AFC. They're an excellent method of fine tuning. Tuning is probably better done on the road rather than dyno. Nor is there anything wrong with NB sensors other than the fact that they have limited life and the one in your car, like all others is probably faulty.

It's not a bad idea to put the car on the dyno before you do anything to it. That way you'll get some numbers and an AFR plot for it.
Then after you've spent a few $KK on it, you can figure out how much each extra HP has cost you.

Steve

[Vita]

NB sensors
Steve

^^ whats this? nb is to short for the search criteria



Awsome Mate, thank you, a starting point.
At this stage my mind is going towards a dyno run then a LC2 wideband and guage along with a SAFCII. Im leaving standard injectors. Im not after huge power or major tuning, just efficient power for what is available (we will rehash that idea in the future)

[Bling]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nb

[rollaholic]

im pretty sure he used NB is an abbreviation for narrowband in that post

i sure wouldnt be taking anything magn1t says as gospel though

[xsspeed]

lol'd

YEah narrow band vs wide band I would assume

[frost]

I've read conflicting information on the SAFC units but couldn't find a pros/cons list on them.

1st gen SAFC is rubbish. I was told by st hi-tec that they do weird things like cause random stalling etc. Apexi SAFCII & Neo are the go. Had a SAFCII on my black top with no problems at all & gave a nice power gain, especially at lower rpm where the 20v's need it.
One piece of advice, don't try tune it yourself. Get it dyno tuned by someone who knows what they're doing like st hi-tec.

i was also told that there only good on 16v 4age engines but the blacktop is too smart for its own good.

interesting to hear about results with blacktops using piggybacks.
i was told that the blacktop ecu is fuzzy logic and over time would revert the settings done by the safc2 and neo to normal factory settings.
as dyno plots on club4ag showed that after a month or so it went back to factory settings and power.

things i found out the hard way was the igniters in blacktops have internal dwell control/or self dwell control.
anyone elso have input would be good as i got a apexi neo for cheap but reluctant to use it if its just fuzzy.

also DON'T road tune it that's a stupid idea.

[Vita]

I've read conflicting information on the SAFC units but couldn't find a pros/cons list on them.

1st gen SAFC is rubbish. I was told by st hi-tec that they do weird things like cause random stalling etc. Apexi SAFCII & Neo are the go. Had a SAFCII on my black top with no problems at all & gave a nice power gain, especially at lower rpm where the 20v's need it.
One piece of advice, don't try tune it yourself. Get it dyno tuned by someone who knows what they're doing like st hi-tec.

i was also told that there only good on 16v 4age engines but the blacktop is too smart for its own good.

interesting to hear about results with blacktops using piggybacks.
i was told that the blacktop ecu is fuzzy logic and over time would revert the settings done by the safc2 and neo to normal factory settings.
as dyno plots on club4ag showed that after a month or so it went back to factory settings and power.

things i found out the hard way was the igniters in blacktops have internal dwell control/or self dwell control.
anyone elso have input would be good as i got a apexi neo for cheap but reluctant to use it if its just fuzzy.

also DON'T road tune it that's a stupid idea.

With the blacktop been a MAP sensor and the silver been MAF - will that info on the ECU reverting back to orginal settings be an issue with a silvertop?

[sergei]

I've read conflicting information on the SAFC units but couldn't find a pros/cons list on them.

1st gen SAFC is rubbish. I was told by st hi-tec that they do weird things like cause random stalling etc. Apexi SAFCII & Neo are the go. Had a SAFCII on my black top with no problems at all & gave a nice power gain, especially at lower rpm where the 20v's need it.
One piece of advice, don't try tune it yourself. Get it dyno tuned by someone who knows what they're doing like st hi-tec.

i was also told that there only good on 16v 4age engines but the blacktop is too smart for its own good.

interesting to hear about results with blacktops using piggybacks.
i was told that the blacktop ecu is fuzzy logic and over time would revert the settings done by the safc2 and neo to normal factory settings.
as dyno plots on club4ag showed that after a month or so it went back to factory settings and power.

things i found out the hard way was the igniters in blacktops have internal dwell control/or self dwell control.
anyone elso have input would be good as i got a apexi neo for cheap but reluctant to use it if its just fuzzy.

also DON'T road tune it that's a stupid idea.

With the blacktop been a MAP sensor and the silver been MAF - will that info on the ECU reverting back to orginal settings be an issue with a silvertop?

I can say, yes. I had SAFC on mine and only thing it did is make it worse.
I also noticed by monitoring VF it happily reverted itself to factory after a while, if Oxygen sensor is functioning. Or if you do change certain things over certain threshold it would run in semi-limp mode (VF=0V), which equals too rich and no advance. The oxygen sensor affects the full throttle operation, even if it is open loop mode, in long term. When ECU is reset it will start rapidly learning from O2 sensor what fuel trim it supposed to run, and it set long term fuel trim. Also it constantly adjust long term fuel trim to compensate for sensor calibration. Thus adjusting the spring on AFM (or intercepting the signal) will only affect the transients on long term while base line will stay more or less the same.

[Vita]

Sorry for my ignorance VF=?

I may be wrong in this assumption but would haveing the wideband LC2 02 sensor change the way that the setup would work?

[sergei]

VF= is diagnostic output of fuel trim state,
0V usually means compensating lean condition (ECU registers that engine runs lean, computer tries to compensate other way)
1.25
2.5 - normal, no compensation
3.75
5V compensating rich condition (ECU registers that engine runs rich, computer tries to compensate other way)

[Vita]

ok - tutoring the idiot here
A SAFC or simila is controlling the voltage to VF to adjust the fuel trim?

[frost]

bugger i was hoping it was not true. thanks Sergei for the good info
+rep to you.

Sergei i just saw you have your mines silver top ecu for sale.
was you assessment described above while running the mines ecu?

[sergei]

bugger i was hoping it was not true. thanks Sergei for the good info
+rep to you.

Sergei i just saw you have your mines silver top ecu for sale.
was you assessment described above while running the mines ecu?

Both.
Mines ECU has got a daughter board with extra CMOS chip on it as well as new uC. Theoratically it is possible to retune that ECU if you know how to "chip" ECUs.
Mines ECU is standard ecu modified by Mines to allow them swap chips etc.

[MAGN1T]

I can say, yes. I had SAFC on mine and only thing it did is make it worse.
I also noticed by monitoring VF it happily reverted itself to factory after a while, if Oxygen sensor is functioning. Or if you do change certain things over certain threshold it would run in semi-limp mode (VF=0V), which equals too rich and no advance. The oxygen sensor affects the full throttle operation, even if it is open loop mode, in long term. When ECU is reset it will start rapidly learning from O2 sensor what fuel trim it supposed to run, and it set long term fuel trim. Also it constantly adjust long term fuel trim to compensate for sensor calibration. Thus adjusting the spring on AFM (or intercepting the signal) will only affect the transients on long term while base line will stay more or less the same.

So your oxy sensor was faulty and the correct fix would have been to replace it?

Steve