F series diffs. whats the go?

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F series diffs. whats the go?

Postby Boost_4_Life » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:36 pm

Looking at upgrading the rear end in the harlet. Currently E series :( What I need to know is what types of LSD and ratios are available for an F series housing? Are they clutch type? how much for a good TRD unit? Im baffled by all the info on different toyota diffs, but i gather F series is the go... and whats the story with altezza head bolting in? Im after 5.1 ratio ideally, thats what i ran last year until i blew it up and it was mint. Running 4.5 now and it sucks, gearing too high now for the tight stuff.
I know f* all about diffs. Ive searched on here but no real luck.

Fella who does all my car work recommends a ford econovan housing with mazda lsd, he reckons the lsd's are better units than hilux gear cos they proportionally ramp up better, but im guessing a good trd lsd would do the same trick?

Car is solely competition use, gravel. Its locked at the moment and im sick of it. Want a real good quality lsd to get the last bit out of the handling, just too twitchy on the locker, hard to control a slide well and fast.

any info much appreciated fellas
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Postby KinLoud » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:56 pm

Ratios...
3.5 (I'm told, never seen one, behind an auto box, ezy10s wants one)
3.7
3.9 (I have one spare)
4.1
4.3
4.55?
4.78 (I have crown and pinion spare)
Thats all I "know" of - there could well be a 5.1

LSD's
Diff's R Us just put an Altezza torsen lsd into an TA63 carina IRS diff housing for me. I'm certain that you can do the same into a solid axle.

Toyota factory plate lsd in 3TGTE powered Carina/Corona etc. Maybe also 1ggte and 1ggze powered toyotas

TRD LSD - cost...$1000/1200 ish I think.

Hope all this helps.

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Postby thegreatestben » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:09 am

KinLoud wrote:Maybe also 1ggte and 1ggze powered toyotas


They'd be G series.

KinLoud wrote:Diff's R Us just put an Altezza torsen lsd into an TA63 carina IRS diff housing for me. I'm certain that you can do the same into a solid axle.


I believe Dave (Roman on here) has put an altezza Cusco unit into a solid axle F series which came from a RA40 I sold him.
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Postby Boost_4_Life » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:07 pm

cheers, im wondering if the reason an E series was put in my car was to get the 5.1 ratio...?

So many different diffs, so little time!
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Postby spencer » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:31 pm

thegreatestben wrote:
KinLoud wrote:Maybe also 1ggte and 1ggze powered toyotas


They'd be G series.


Na not all Ive seen turbo ga70's with F diffs and my 1ggze 130 series crown has a F series diff dude
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Postby thegreatestben » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:57 pm

spencer wrote:
thegreatestben wrote:
KinLoud wrote:Maybe also 1ggte and 1ggze powered toyotas


They'd be G series.


Na not all Ive seen turbo ga70's with F diffs and my 1ggze 130 series crown has a F series diff dude


Oddball :?
Should amend my post to they SHOULD be G series. However my colleague spence has seen cases of F's where an F shouldn't be.

8)
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Postby RomanV » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:11 am

thegreatestben wrote:I believe Dave (Roman on here) has put an altezza Cusco unit into a solid axle F series which came from a RA40 I sold him.


Correct.

These are your choices really:

1. AE86 T series diff + aftermarket T series LSD
pros: Possibly narrow enough diff that you wont need to shorten it up for a starlet.
Lightest possible option with LSD, not sure about 5.1 but pretty sure you can get a 4.9 ratio.
Already disc rear, if that helps. 4x114 stud pattern

cons: Stupidly expensive to buy, if you can find one.

2. Celica/corona/carina T series diff
Pros:
Infinitely cheaper than AE86 diff
Equal lightest, cheapest option to get an LSD setup depending on amount of fabrication needed. 4x114 stud pattern

cons: Drum rear, wider overall, more likely to need shortening. (Although the cost of shortening is possibly less than difference in price to AE86 diff :?)

3. RA40/RA60/etc F series live axle
Pros: Stronger than T series
Lots of final drive ratios easily available

Cons: Hard to find, I've got one in the car and one spare, after searching for freaken ages.
T series is strong enough if you're not breaking Es, unnecessary weight lugging around.
Is wider than AE86, so $$$ on getting diff shortened if need be.
Altezza LSDs are common, but torsen type so possibly no good for rally.
Gonna be $1200+ if wanting a brand new cusco or TRD LSD at last check, wouldnt be surprised if it cost over $2k all up to get setup for a starlet if you have to get someone else to do the fabricating etc :?

4. F series live axle from Estima/etc 90s van
Pros: Plentiful, cheap.
cons: Pretty sure they're all 5 stud

5. G series hilux 'LSD'
Pros: Stupidly strong.
cons: Stupidly strong to the point of overkill, and heavy. The 'LSD' is shitty and only has preloads.
Shimming up the LSD either makes it have the worst of both worlds of both a locker and open diff. Not reccomended

6. You and a gaggle of oompa loompas are sailing in a giant purple shoe, afloat on a sea of gold plated hens teeth and fossilized rocking horse shit.
A violent downpour of disco flavoured snozzle rockets capsizes your shoe, and you are knocked overboard, left clinging to a giant aglet.
Thankfully, a top hat wearing gentleman in a dirigible who was in the vicinity, rescues you and takes you on a journey to candy land.
Shortly after setting down, you find someone selling a TRD E series LSD which bolts straight into your diff and solves all of your problems with a minimal amount of fuss.
Precisely at this moment, you abruptly snap upwards out of bed in a cold sweat, and you realise that none of the above just occured, it was a dream. Of course it was!
You have a quiet chuckle to yourself as you realise how rediculous it was to think that you had just found an E series LSD for sale.
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Postby Boost_4_Life » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:49 am

lol, spot on mate great information cheers. Makes me more keen to do this mazda thing. the lsd's are cheaper new, and can buy the ratio i want. and apparently the lsds are better than factory toyota (unless you go afetrmarket of course)

Its gonna need a bit of work anyway, im looking at between 2 and 3k as it is. But hey, they print money everyday :wink:
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Postby RomanV » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:45 pm

Like some of the other stuff, I'm sure that the mazdaspeed LSDs are strong as hell, but most likely huge overkill for a 20V starlet.

If you've got that sort of $$$ to spend then I'd say T series is the way to go, much more than that is just dead weight.

Less transmission loss too I guess, with a smaller crownwheel and pinion?
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Postby Boost_4_Life » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:53 pm

so this assembly would be the type to aim for?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=212158747

except possible shortening? The brakes etc on my current E series can all swap over, they work fine (primera calipers i believe). Id just need to know what ratios are available for T series... I guess if i bought the above diff, I could go to my contact at toyota and sey "Hey I want this ratio and a TRD lsd" and once paying the earth and getting my diff specialist to put the gear in, job done..?
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Postby Boost_4_Life » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:57 pm

except i wont buy the above diff, gotta be something cheaper...
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Postby Boost_4_Life » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:27 pm

also... general idea of cost for a trd lsd for t series diff? Just as a rough guide for my pricing..?
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Postby RomanV » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:59 pm

Yeah if you're gonna swap your brakes over and shorten it anyway, then get the cheapest one you can find to start with. ie. not something that fits an AE86 straight up.

I gave away my last two carina T series drum rears, if that's a price indicator. :lol:

An MA45 celica diff will probably be cheapest and easiest to find.
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Postby Boost_4_Life » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:30 pm

hmmm. anyone got any ideas on the price of an ae86 trd lsd? I cant be assed hunting for parts, i want it done yesterday :lol:
Last edited by Boost_4_Life on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby d1 mule » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:48 pm

trf LSD new about 1200, second hand 800ish. but odds are you wont find 1 with the ratio you want so will need the crown and pinion too, im not sure on the pricing of them
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Postby TRD Man » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:10 am

Last I heard TRD LSD for AE86 had been discontinued. If there is run out stock, which is unlikely, it would also be unlikely that they could be bought for $1200 given that the value of the NZ$ has about halved against the yen recently.

2nd hand price is about right. There are a few around at the moment.
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Postby Boost_4_Life » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:30 am

ok, thanks for the info fellas. Lookin forward to getting rid of this damn locked diff! Its a nightmare at times, bloody thing just wants to swap ends
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Postby d1 mule » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:04 pm

why do you think a LSD will solve that?? seeing as a good LSD unit (TRD CUSCO etc) will effectivly be a locker anyway. yeah fair enough when you are going slow on concrete, but flat out on gravel i highly doubt it will make an ounce of difference.
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Postby Boost_4_Life » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:14 pm

youd be surprised... Its too aggresive under brakes etc, and on downhill on off camber stuff. The locker just gives you no leeway cos in that sort of situation sometimes you dont want the back end sliding too much. In a short wheelbase car its not so cool. Ive driven longer wheelbase cars on gravel with locked diff and they were good. But with a locker in the starlet there is little room for error. As I say its hard to push on real fast downhill stuff when you know if the rear starts to step out, its just gonna completely $&#$% off. thats when you want the diff to not throw you sideways.
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