RWD 20v Turbo water feed

[ke_25]

currenly modifying the waterpump/head to accomodate water piping and am asking what is the best possible place to run teh water feed lines for th turbo?

ihave machines the head to run as a 16v set up for water lines etc


was currently thinking of running the feed from the old outlet on the head of the 20v?
and then the return would be where the heater return is ion the 16v water lines? as i will run a Y section here i guess, although my concern is that it will be being fed from the hot part of the coolant system?

any help would be appreciated.

cheers shaun

[levinguy]

no idea where i would run them, but in most fwd 4agtes i've seen people don't bother running water lines, usually just oil lines for the turbo, or if they keep them they tee into the water lines going to the ISCV on the throttle body

[ke_25]

hey,

yeah im running a garrett 2871r so wasnt cheap so i would ratehr run the water lines, i will be running after market throttle body so thats got none of thsoe lines you were talking about as it is ae86 configuration,

thet way i was going to run it would be similer/identical to how a ae86 heater is bplumbed in? but my concern was teh ater ebing on the hot side, or isnt this going to affect it?

http://www.billzilla.org/4agwater.gif

cheers

[tsoob]

no idea where i would run them, but in most fwd 4agtes i've seen people don't bother running water lines, usually just oil lines for the turbo, or if they keep them they tee into the water lines going to the ISCV on the throttle body

yeah that is one good option, also there is a plug that goes into the water jacket on the block

[ke_25]

the plug into the water jacket.. is that the plug thats located next to the oil pressure take off? on th exhaust side? any one know which thread this is?

cheers

[ke_25]

the plug into the water jacket.. is that the plug thats located next to the oil pressure take off? on th exhaust side?

"coolant drain plug"?

if so which i think it is, been having a look on net would best bet be feed from here and then return into the head where radiator outlet once was?? or would this not force flow and would need to go into the back of tehr water pump where the heater is located so the pump sucks that water through??



cheers

[sergei]

Why not T into heater pipes (obviously before the the valve).

[ke_25]

could do that i guess, i was woried about if you turb the heater on it will drain? the water feed for the turbo.. but looking at it now i htink it will be fine. might run a seperate feed for the heater and turbo, and just t into the return (the one that sits on back of water pump)

[tsoob]

could do that i guess, i was woried about if you turb the heater on it will drain? the water feed for the turbo.. but looking at it now i htink it will be fine. might run a seperate feed for the heater and turbo, and just t into the return (the one that sits on back of water pump)

sounds like the best option man

[matt dunn]

When we did mine we went from top radiator hose to bottom radiator hose,

as not only do you need water flowing through it when running,
but when you shut down there needs to be a way for the convection to flow water thru the turbo,
hot water rises, and so when shut down, as the turbo heats it, it flows up and out.

And I would highly reccomend NOT running a Ball Bearing turbo without water, as the plastic parts inside them do not like the heat.

[sergei]

The problem with top and bottom radiator hoses, there is no flow unless thermostat is open, turbo can heat up a lot quicker than engine in some cases, although when it starts boiling water in the jacket there will be some movement.
Normally, factory lines run from water pump (bypassing thermostat) to turbo then it "drains" into the top hose of the radiator.
So theoretically you can T one of the heater hoses (that fed by pump) and T the top radiator hose.

[4agtepwr]

I run mine tee'd between the heater hoses and it works fine

[gmacrae]

...but when you shut down there needs to be a way for the convection to flow water thru the turbo,
hot water rises, and so when shut down, as the turbo heats it, it flows up and out.

Thats an important point for sure.

I would've thought the stock water lines that feed the throttle body or ICV/IAC would be perfect for the turbo. We dont (usually) need them on the ICV in NZ (unless you're way south)

[Akane]

hey,

yeah im running a garrett 2871r so wasnt cheap so i would ratehr run the water lines, i will be running after market throttle body so thats got none of thsoe lines you were talking about as it is ae86 configuration,

GT2871R is actually one of the cheaper GT Turbos offered by garret, FYI I have ran my GT2540R without water, the bearings did fail but that was because of other reasons (blocked oil drain), the turbo has been run by Matty without water for quite some time, and then onto me for a while.

my GT28RS is ran by oil only too. One of the mechanics almost screwed it up (blocking the oil drain again) but it survived.

[ke_25]

by cheapi mean not a chinese knock off, and it was more than the 28rs also.
point is i would rather run teh water lines, hense this topic.

Cheers Shaun

[Akane]

as I said, you can run it without the water if you can't really get water for it, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Just make sure you cool the turbo down properly everytime.

[Crampy]

The way I see it is if there's water lines for a turbo, then use them. Running water can often be easier than doing the oil feed and return.

I've got water lines on my turbo GT-Z and will be doing the same on the projects I have coming up.

[Akane]

There are times which prohabits the use of water lines. Mine is that the turbo CHRA is rotated in such a way that it interferes with the wastegate and the adaptor. A shame really.

[AE25]

so long as the water outlet from the turbo is connected as close to the inlet of the water pump as possible, preferably AFTER the thermostat on a 4age, in conjunction with the inlet of the turbo connected as close to the outlet of the water pump.. then you'll have best flow.

in practice this is not as easy due to the available water connection points. so unless you want to tap into the water pump housing on the front of the block to feed the turbo with cooled water.. (good luck, the cam belt runs above it!) the next best place is an outlet coming out of the engine block.. and since there are none.. (unless you want to remove the water drain from the block) next best is water outlet from the head ie original 20v radiator outlet or 16v radiator outlet or temp sensor block on back of head.

i think the main point here is that the thermostat acts like a restriction to the whole system. (like a resister is an electrical circuit) so for best water flow of an auxiliary water circuit, you need to be running in parallel with the restriction (thermostat) like the cabin heater does. (feeds from head outlet and returns after the thermostat).

unfortunately the heater circuit is taking hot water and cooling it whereas ideally you'd want to take cool water and heat it.
so in a perfect world you'd tap into the water pump housing (outlet side before it enters the block) to feed cold water to the turbo and return it into the top radiator pipe so it can be cooled before entering the engine again. but again good luck on this.. this is cam belt territory. also means every time you replace the water pump.. you have to tap into the new pump housing.. or unless you can put a fitting into the water pump backing plate on the exit side?!

soo.. unless you want to dick about modifying water pump housings.. fit the turbo feed from a water source on the head, and fit the turbo return to a line that feeds back into the water pump after the thermostat ie the heater return line or the thermostat bybass line.

in theory this is not the *best* route, but in practice, this is what factory water cooled turbo systems run. at normal operating temps, your coolant system still has enough capacity to absorb heat from the turbo before boiling point.

does this simply awesome pic kind of explain the system using rwd 16v thermostat housing with the 20v head? ... (substitute the cabin heater for your turbo)

[durty starlet]

lol at swastika