ss2000 and the break out rule, your thoughts

[fxgt race]

We have just finish the manfield round. It was a very wet round.
At the agm they voted on a break out rule for our racing this year, I didn't want it. It goes like this, On qualifing and the first race your best time is taken and used to set the grid for the first reverse grid race, you are not to better that time by 1 second during the race, If you do then 5 seconds is added to your overall time. This is for all 8 laps so if you brake out every lap then 40 secs are added.If you brake out by 3 sec in one lap then 15 secs are added to the overall time and so on.
It was introduced for people to stop sandbaging, People going slow in the first race to move up further in the reverse grid races and the bettering there time by far and taking the win

THis weekend was wet. Qualifing and the first race was very wet. We did this and our best time was taken to set the grid for the first reverse
grid race. This race was on the following day and the weather was wasn't
as wet. I drove my arse off and won the race , but broke out and ended up 19th out of 22, although my laps is saying 8th, will need to investigate.

The biggest problem was the last race,the grid was set with wet times as it was done while it was still raining, by race time it had completely dryed out. So we went out and wern't able to beat our wet times on a dry track by 1 sec or you would break out. As most of the feild wanted points they just putted around, I had my lap timer on to stay over my break out time.

Racing is all about setting good times ,getting faster over the weekend and improving your times . Whats the point in having a rule that penalises you for doing this.

Last year we didn't have this rule and it was fine, and if we still didn't have it all the guys would of had there slicks on for the last race and we would have had a race, thats what we are there for racing.

It costs minl a grand to do this meeting so to meander around the track like its a trackday is crap.









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[Bazda]

Looks as though not enough thought was put into the rule when they made it.

If there are guys sand bagging, maybe they should set some cut off lap times for the tracks.

I saw on my laps at the puke event guys were running 1.04s then in the last reverse grid race would run a 1.02.

[fxgt race]

its hard to get right, This rule works ok when the track conditions don't change and your times a consistant, a second is alot on a dry track to break out on and we can nominate a time . Its when the conditions change. We did nominate a dry time but we need time to put the slicks on and we don't have crews if the call is made to go dry times.

With no break out rule it was our call on the weather,slicks or wets. If they get it wrong people won't be happy, if its on the driver choice to bad.

[matt dunn]

I had read about that rule on the SS2000 website before and questioned it's viability.

I am planning on running SS2000 in march and so have been keeping an eye on the rules etc etc,

The question I had asked was
If I am a new driver and have never driven at taupo before,
Obviously my times will get better as the weekend goes on,
and I'm not going to do 1000 laps on Friday testing to learn it all,

so if my times in the last race get better due to actually getting better at driving,
Will I be penalised?

And the answer is yes.

IMO the rule sucks.

If you keep the rule then you need to ban in-car lap timers.

Sport Saloons changed there classes down here too which is one reason i changed,
and so now instead of who can go fast,
it's who can drive a fast car consistanly at a slow pace to get the same lap time every lap?
Dumb idea IMO and I voted against that too.

One thing we have down here is that there is only 1/2 the amount pf points for the reverse grid handicap race,

so there is more of an advantage from going fast in the first two races,
than there is in the last one,
However some of the slower cars that dont have a chance is a stright up race anyway,
still sandbag to get a good jump on the field for the handicap.
but that is probaly becacause S. Saloons down here have a handicap race only championship
which is what the slow guys aim for.
( meaning you get points in the overall championship , but also in a separate one too.)


I guess i will find out all about it at easter at taupo.

Matt

There is no real way I can see to stop it from happening without penalising others.

[fxgt race]

After the first race and the times come out you have 15 mins to change your times, so if you thing you will go faster it would be wise to nominate a lower time. Or points won't matter to you so just go hard and the crowd watching sees where you finish and thats all that matters. Im only doing 2 rounds nexted year and won't be worried about times but where i finish. Where supposed to be racing not time watching

[atmosports]

Had similar rules in classes, Super Mini Challenge is a good one as there were a few competitors who sandbagged & then would always go 2-3secs faster in the handicap & win it. I kind of agree in principal to the breakout rule to stop sandbagging but there needs to be some allowance for new drivers/tracks & also weather conditions. I believe years ago in classic type racing we had about a 3-5sec breakout it floated a bit depending on track/weather & if the weather changed then previous meetings laptimes were genrally used along with nominated laptimes to set the grid, seemed to work alright. No idea on the ruling in SS2000, as I know plenty of competitors in the class but haven't really had a chance to follow it much this season.

[pc]

I would think that it is fairly obvious when someone is sandbagging, maybe it would be best if the judges could just call it if someone's qualifying & race times are a lot out of sync with what the rest of the field are doing.
I know it's not a very exact way of doing it, but it would probably end up with a more accurate result.

[Truenotch]

Haven't read all the posts yet, but was there for the race and I think you deserved the win... It was a fair, well fought race with luck on your side.

[3T-Rona]

I would think that it is fairly obvious when someone is sandbagging, maybe it would be best if the judges could just call it if someone's qualifying & race times are a lot out of sync with what the rest of the field are doing.
I know it's not a very exact way of doing it, but it would probably end up with a more accurate result.

couldnt they just flip a coin to decide if the start was reverse grid or not, that way no one would know if they were gona be at the front or back,
or just do qualifying be comparing the lap time from the last race you did, to decide who starts where.
the idea of sandbaggin makes qualifying pointless, you might as well just start where you want to.

[Leon]

Well you lost your result because others played to win (by keeping inside their times). Which you can't really do much about.

You should put your feedback to the SS2000 club committee and put a motion to the AGM that they dump it. If enough people agree with you, then out it will go. Even if not enough people agree with you to get it dumped, then the committee will at least know that some folk don't like the rule.

I'm assuming they put the rule in place with good intent, as people do want to win after all, so will work with the rules so that they can win.

I don't think there are many SS2000 competitors in this forum at all, so probably you're not going to raise much in the way of useful support.

[fxgt race]

It is being talked about on the ss2000 forums and im sure there will be remits for rule changes or improvements on the break out rule at the next agm. It will have to be addressed as as a competitor not racing the last race but watching said it was a bad race to watch. There trying to get spectators to race meetings .

[Dragger_Dan]

From a fan and spectator's view I think it is BS. Whoever gets the chequered flag after the set number of laps should be the winner, rather than having the race officials go away after the race with calculators and try and work out who has won. There should not be penalties for driving well during a race. After all, isn't that what the fans want to see, drivers giving it 100% during the race, rather than driving round constantly watching their lap timer, buttoning off if they are going too fast?

[JustinSpiderholden]

Sounds like theya re trying to make racing poltically correct to give evryone a chance of a win

DUMB

You turn up you quailify and where you finsh should be your result

[Leon]

Sounds like theya re trying to make racing poltically correct to give evryone a chance of a win

I think you've misread the original post. Break out rules are to stop people deliberately driving slowly in one race so that they can then based on that slow time, get a good grid position in a race that follows it.

[fxgt race]

The problem with the rule is no matter how much tweaking at the agm it will never work with changing track conditions. Its wet in the first race and damp in the second, you are going to go faster and brake out so you either go for glory over the line for the spectators or go slow so you don't brake out for points. I hope it gets binned becaused i didn't vote for it last and i hope other poeple will this time.

We know sandbagers and give them stick for it every meeting, there are some funny names for people.

[Mr Revhead]

How about picking a lap time from qual/race1/race 2 at random?
After race 2 the officials can flip a coin or pull a number from a hat.
say they pull race one, then your time can be taken from that.
That way none will know when to sandbag.
If a competitor has a failure or an issue in the chosen session then he can inform the officials and they can chose to pick another session for that competitor or negotiate an appropriate time?

[JustinSpiderholden]

Sounds like theya re trying to make racing poltically correct to give evryone a chance of a win

I think you've misread the original post. Break out rules are to stop people deliberately driving slowly in one race so that they can then based on that slow time, get a good grid position in a race that follows it.

Well maybe they should be told to pull there head in, if your not ther to race why are you competing?

[fxgt race]

The drivers are the ones that voted this rule in at the last agm with a show of hands, I didn't and this year i will put a remit in to can it. It still depends on the drivers present to vote so you have to persauded them a good reason not to vote for it

[matt dunn]

The drivers are the ones that voted this rule in at the last agm with a show of hands, I didn't and this year i will put a remit in to can it. It still depends on the drivers present to vote so you have to persauded them a good reason not to vote for it

If you cant get the rule removed,

another option would be to add a clause like,

If more than 15% of all competitors break out of there time,
then the break out rule does not apply to that race.


Would allow for wet/ changeable conditions, and you could change the % to what is required.

Would be interesting to know what % of competitors broke out?

[fxgt race]

I broke out twice with a lap timer, the times are still not up because there were so many brake outs.You would hope that the percentage does brake out if you decided to go for it and the others didn't and the brake out rule still applied. I have had times 100ths of seconds faster than my brake out time and so get pinged so fustrating when you get a lap right with lines and braking to get 5 seconds put on your time.

We gave dry times at a guess, I havn't driven at manfield since last year and i have a new gearbox the cars lighter,suspension has changed, I would probably have broken that time every lap.

How every you try to fix it has to be thought out really well because some one will find a problem with it and a reason why it will cause other problems. I would say 100% broke out