toyota recall

[Mr Revhead]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3 ... ge-control

oh dear

[cat007]

HAHA

Well - I shouldn't laugh, BUT, maybe the Prius is natures way of weeding out the week? i.e. buy a Prius, you're obviously retarded and should no longer be on this planet, therefore, Toyota have a solution for you in the form of a sticky gas pedal.....

[Mr.Phreak]

A 61 yr old in a Prius?? That's an accident waiting to happen anyway

[pidge]

A 61 yr old in a Prius?? That's an accident waiting to happen anyway

My dad's 72, and drives a Prius, though you'd think he's barely turned 60 looking at him. Never caused an accident in his life, though had other drivers cross the centre line, back out of driveways front of him, and drive through stop signs into him.

And when young (and foolish?) he bought a homogulated Ford Lotus Cortina, (even collected it from the factory). And proceded to repeatedly break the rear axle on it, as they all did (all replaced under warranty, too!). The wiring developed a short circuit on the trip to Nice, so he spent a few days sitting on the beach fixing the loom.

There was a 100mph butt-clencher on A1 on the same trip, when a Bambi pulled out in front of my dad to pass a bus, and the brakes didn't do much.

And my mum pulled a 4-wheel drift in it through an underpass where the road changed sides of the railway lines , which shut up the hitch-hiking BBC camera guy in the back seat who had been mouthing off about women drivers.

Ah, the good old days...

[MAGN1T]

I think most people underestimate the seriousness of all this.

Old cars will be totally worthless and end up on the scrap heap because they will be totally unsafe. Not just Toyotas but any car that uses electronics to directly control the stop and go .
Cables, springs and butterfly valves can be made to go for ever but custom electronics will eventually die, only a matter of time.
Sergei's comments about contact bounce and software, contact debounce is done with a capacitor not software. Of course it can be modded with software but if it's broken , then it's broken.
Capacitors fail in everything these days, it's the easiest way to build a time bomb into something and silicon chips are almost 100% reliable, unlike 20 or so years ago.
There's no way I'm going to be driving anything with an electronic throttle, was looking at a GDI Pajero the other day (helping the owner). Even they have that crap in them.
Of course it's nessecary though, think what can be done.....remote shutdown, remote takeover, remote anything.

Steve

[Mr Revhead]

There's this guy called soniq. you two should hook up

[sergei]

There's this guy called soniq. you two should hook up

I thought exactly the same thing

[Bling]

Just remember what he said in 10 years time

I'd say it won't be THAT far from the truth

[MAGN1T]

To add to that, the government is always trying to find ways to keep the "national fleet" up to date, modern and safe.And to keep the economy going of course.

In the early 90s we had lots of old pommy shitters on the road, to get rid of them we started importing used jappers, closing down the local assembly industry too .
Then there were too many old jappers on the road so they dreamed up the "frontal impact regs" to stop importation of pre 93 ish cars.
Now the government is pushing all the electronic BS in cars, ESC, etc. What's going to happen when all that shyte craps out?
Recalls on new cars because they crash? Old cars? frightning stuff.
Time to drive around in old technology I think.

Steve

[MR2BOY23]

Another Toyota in the news this morning

Prius with a jammed accelerator pedal

[Mr Revhead]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3424744/Prius-freeway-drama-amid-Toyota-damage-control

oh dear

you mean that one?

[fivebob]

Sergei's comments about contact bounce and software, contact debounce is done with a capacitor not software. Of course it can be modded with software but if it's broken , then it's broken.

And you claim to be involved in electronics

FYI R-C debounce circuitry is not used that much in modern circuits due to it's slow response times and as you mentioned the failure of components, either a dedicated chip like the Motorola MC14490 or 100% software debounce seems to be the preferred method, no capacitors involved at all

[MR2BOY23]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3424744/Prius-freeway-drama-amid-Toyota-damage-control

oh dear

you mean that one?

Yeah that's the one

[MAGN1T]

Software is far from reliable. Actually the thought of modern ECUs being able to be "reflashed" at home is pretty frightening. You really won't know what has been changed.
Older ECUs had eproms (100% reliable) leading to proms in later production models (also 100% reliable).
eeproms used in later technology (flash roms) aren't so reliable, they get spiked and change bits of code by themselves. Ever heard of an aftermarket ECU dying just for the sake of it and needing reprogramming?
It happens every time there's a storm and power surges, office phone systems always crap out.

Steve

[sergei]

Software is far from reliable. Actually the thought of modern ECUs being able to be "reflashed" at home is pretty frightening. You really won't know what has been changed.
Older ECUs had eproms (100% reliable) leading to proms in later production models (also 100% reliable).
eeproms used in later technology (flash roms) aren't so reliable, they get spiked and change bits of code by themselves. Ever heard of an aftermarket ECU dying just for the sake of it and needing reprogramming?
It happens every time there's a storm and power surges, office phone systems always crap out.

Steve

This accelerator problem has nothing to do with EEPROM failing.
Any CMOS memory is not 100% reliable, nothing really is. A mechanical link is as likely to jam (especially on older car) as an electronic. FFS a butterfly throttle can stick by itself be that cable actuated or stepper motor.

This problem has been blown out of proportion by media. Media likes sensation hence all this nonsense with how many cases exactly?

What you are describing with lighting storms is just simply bad design (and probably lack of ECC).

[Mr Revhead]

Not only blown put of proportion..
But know one has actually to my knowledge 100% identified a fault...
By that I mean they have no tbeen able to pick up a part and say "this bit here fails and causes it"

[sergei]

Not only blown put of proportion..
But know one has actually to my knowledge 100% identified a fault...
By that I mean they have no tbeen able to pick up a part and say "this bit here fails and causes it"

Exactly.

First they blamed floor mats. In those cases the authority should have been taken licences off permanently from people with this problem.
Then they blamed on mechanical wear of the pedal assembly.
What about that idiot trooper with lexus that crashed? Perhaps he was on drugs. What kind of person with supposedly driver training is unable to stop run away car? Come on even if you have no brakes, cannot turn off the engine, cannot put in neutral, there is still option of scraping against guard rail/centre barrier. He had time to chat with 911 service for quiet a while.

What about that stupid bitch that claimed that she put it in neutral and "it had no effect, just revved", I mean it actually went in neutral, but she was too stupid to realise what would happen if you are jamming throttle instead of breaks and slam it neutral.

Many cases of run away cars are because people are too dumb to realise that they are pressing throttle instead of brakes.

How many cases you have seen people parking and jamming gas instead of brakes, genuinely believing that they are braking? I have seen too many.

The problem of mixup gas and brake is because of you are being able to drive without manual driving skills.

[Adamal]

I blame Skynet.

[shihad]

I blame Skynet.

bahaha nice

[Timmo]

Cables, springs and butterfly valves can be made to go for ever but custom electronics will eventually die, only a matter of time.

Rubbish. Both electronic and mechanical controls are designed with a specific lifetime involved......springs break, pivots ream out, valves wear....just as capacitors die and solder hardens.

The difference is, it is far far easier/cheaper to introduce multiple redundancies using electronics than it is to do it with mechanical systems.