GTT Caldinas vs GTB Legacy vs Primera Neo...

[peas]

So I'm looking to upgrade the shitty old wagon. Still want a wagon but I'm divided between a GTT Caldinas, GTB Legacy and a Primera Neo. The Caldinas are all on TradeMe for a good 2.5-3k more than a 2-3 year newer Legacy with less km on the Subaru. Are they really worth the extra? I have had mates and both my brothers own Subarus and have done so with no major issues despite the "horror stories" you hear about them. All would be in manual so no worries about CVT in the Nissan which tend to be a good 1-2k cheaper than the Legacy. Opinions?...

Thanks

[sergei]

Lets start with GTB:
$&#$% turbos
$&#$% shocks = $$$ to replace.
Check for diff bind
Leaky cam covers come as standard
Check if cam belt was done (other wise $$$).
Being slow and having a hole ~5500rpm is a normal thing for those.

Primera NEO:
gutless
watch out for sludge in the motor
watch out for noisy chain (especially startup on cold).

Caldina GTT:
Make sure it does not have any boost taps
Ask what fuel it runs (word it as if you don't know what it needs)
Make sure you check for blow by
Coils could be a problem (run it from cold).
And check infamous warped manifold problem
Check when cambelt was done (could be $$$).

EDIT: primera will be the most boring car out of all those, it is so bland that it will put your granpa asleep.

[dnalunchie]

GTB's are good bang for buck if they are STANDARD

If you intend on buying one then dont look at anything that has anymore than a cat back exhaust, anymore than that and it will cause massive boost spikes. Also try to find one with the stock intake and if the panel filter has been replaced check and see if it has been replaced with a dry filter (Such as an APEXI or some HKS ones) or a wet oiled one (K&N) as the oil on the filter can screw with the sensors on subies.

The late model legacies are not nearly as bad as people say... most of the bad stories come down to stupid modifications and a lack of maintenance.

10k will get you a nice 2001-2002 stock GTB with leather and all the nice bits

If you buy a GTT as Sergei says, make sure its stock and has been run on 98

Why would you even bother with a Primera?
They don't really compare to the GTT or GTB but I guess they would be cheaper.


I wish I could take the GTT running gear and put it in a late 2000 GTB shape.... but since I can't I would just buy a GTT and be happy.

[peas]

Yeah the thought on the Legacy was for a stock one... or as stock as you could come by actually that was my thinking for any of the cars I'm looking at. I don't necessarily need a rocket ship, the Primeras are meant to be comparable to the Beams 3S-GE I understood (I have owned a Caldina GT) which went really well but I am fooling myself if I get another automatic (as the GT's are)

[Dell'Orto]

GTB's are good bang for buck if they are STANDARD.

They are excellent bang for buck, you get far more breakdowns per dollar spent

[fuel]

Lets start with GTB:
$&#$% turbos
$&#$% shocks = $$$ to replace.
Check for diff bind
Leaky cam covers come as standard
Check if cam belt was done (other wise $$$).
Being slow and having a hole ~5500rpm is a normal thing for those.

Primera NEO:
gutless
watch out for sludge in the motor
watch out for noisy chain (especially startup on cold).

Caldina GTT:
Make sure it does not have any boost taps
Ask what fuel it runs (word it as if you don't know what it needs)
Make sure you check for blow by
Coils could be a problem (run it from cold).
And check infamous warped manifold problem
Check when cambelt was done (could be $$$).

EDIT: primera will be the most boring car out of all those, it is so bland that it will put your granpa asleep.

You are kidding about the Primera right? I can see where you are coming from with the Primera but the Caldina is not any better at all - it reeks of typical 90s Toyota curves just placed anywhere and then the lines watered down further in fear of outraging the conservative folk, it's not too far off the Camry of the similar era. At least the Primera is a bit rewarding to drive, they have to be one of the best handling FWD Jap sedans right out of the box in stock standard order. This is all personal opinion though and as much as you're entitled to your opinion I believe the Primera is no less boring than the Caldina.

[fuel]

To add to the above, I would avoid the CVT-M6 models as they are problematic, the chain rattle on startup is perfectly normal and should only happen for a second or two, any longer and then it could be an issue. Watch for worn out camshafts too which would sound like a rough running noise from the top end. The Neo VVL system works exactly like Hondas VTEC or Mitsubishis MIVEC, they are very under-rated with 190HP from a 2L N/A engine. Don't get the Neo DI model or any QG series engined car, their timing chains stretch at as little as 70,000kms causing pinking, misfiring and rough running throughout the rev range. The DI engines can suffer from high pressure fuel pump failure too.

GT-Bs aren't a bad wagon, they definitely represent good value for money, you would spend half the money on a GT-B than you would on a Caldina GT-T for something of the same condition, kms and year etc. Shocks aren't expensive, they're the same price as most other cars on the road, certainly no more expensive than GT-T shocks anyhow. Yes leaky rocker covers are a problem with them, but if using genuine gaskets and if the job is done correctly then it shouldn't be an issue. Cambelts are not a big deal on the GT-Bs, the cost of parts is a bit higher due to the four idler pulleys used and super long cambelt, but the cost of labour is considerably cheaper than doing it on a Caldina GT-T - with the boxer engine layout, with the radiator removed there is plenty of access and you can get the job done quickly.

Another one I would add to the pile is a Legnum VR-4, they're probably in the same league as the Legacy GT-B in terms of running cost and reliability, but their cost means you can pick something up newer and less kms than a GT-T and so long as you get a good example you'll have very few issues with it. They have the most power at 280hp and the V6 engine sounds great.

There are plenty of other options too if you have an open mind. What is the budget at hand here and do you prefer auto or manual? Does it have to be a performance orientated wagon? Are safety features like curtain air bags etc a high priority on your list?

[peas]

I'm looking around the 7,500 - 8k mark. I don't need a really fast car but that said, I don't want to be slugging it up hills or having issues overtaking if I have some gear in the back of it that was all. My GT Caldina was really great in all aspects besides the usual suspect... warped manifold. It had 330km on it so the auto had done its job and then some! I'm not too concerned about airbags really... though most of the models that I am looking at seem to have them in any case. I haven't actually worked on a Legacy much but I did the cambelt in my Caldina and it was a B!TCH. I can't see how having the belts sitting right at the front of the engine bay could be harder even if you do remove radiator as you say. Not so keen on the Misti. A few of my mates have owned both VR-4's and non turbos and well... they seem to always be having issues.

[fuel]

What about a Mk3 Mondeo wagon? They're squarely placed in your price bracket. You can get a 2004/05/06 model for that money, what GT-T or any Toyota can you buy for $7-8k which is 5 years old and has 7 air bags, ABS and EBD? Absolutely nothing.

Yes I can acknowledge they aren't the most reliable option, but they're mostly given a bad name due to the automatic models which often have troubles. If you pick a 5speed manual, and a 2004 onwards model you are likely to have litttle to no troubles with it whatsoever. Fuel economy on them is great at 8L/100km and they aren't a slug either which the automatic models are.

[Emperor]

Interested in a M35 Stagea?
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/g ... C00285.jpg

[BZG Wagon]

I went through this delima 3 years ago (just add a WRX STi into the mix).

I ended up on the GTT mostly because of reliability - although I did suffer the warpped manifold, I now have an 8 studded manifold which cost all up $650 incl. labour. 3 years & nothing else major to report @ 140kms.

The legacy had an awesome interior, but it felt cramped to me be being a 6ft driver. Friends who had legacy GT's also suffered the mentioned rocker cover leak which I hear is a nightmare to fix, gearbox problems and some had random electrical issues. I personally found the GTT held the road a bit better - but that can be down to preference.

Onto the primera; for starters not finding a factory manual neo pretty much took it out of contention & I wasn't interested in some back yard mechanics manual conversion. The steering in primeras are very light, the gearbox is flimsy & the cars feel floaty in general. Especially when compared to the heavy, sure footed toyota feel & their really tight gearbox.

I've loved almost every moment of my GTT. Feels like a safe car to be in, loads of grip, it's great on any kind of road - sand, snow, gravel (although the potholed roads of the CBD seem to be the hardest on it). Mines been to Cape Reinga to as far south as Queenstown and never missed a beat.

The added bonus I found was great fuel consumption. Not only is it quicker than a Primera, it uses way less fuel.

As someone said to me - you'll learn to love and appreciate the Caldina's interior over time. When my partner had a massive accient in her car I suddenly realised why there's so much room between your legs and the steering wheel, and why you sit more upright etc.

[Mr Revhead]

Re the GT-B shocks, most, if not all are Bilsteins. $$$ to replace.
Either a rebuild which is around 3-500 each or something silly like $700 from Subaru.

[dnalunchie]

Re the GT-B shocks, most, if not all are Bilsteins. $$$ to replace.
Either a rebuild which is around 3-500 each or something silly like $700 from Subaru.

Yeah but you don't nessecarily have to replace with Bilsteins... plenty of other options out there.

[Mr Revhead]

Pretty sure standard shocks are not a straight swap.

[dnalunchie]

Pretty sure standard shocks are not a straight swap.

Nar I mean aftermarket options, KYB, BCgold etc etc

[snwtoy]

Can also vouch for the GTT Caldina. Have had mine a long time (6 years?) and still love it to bits. I also appreciate the extras like heated side mirrors

The only issue has been the manifold. Replaced with driven performance manifold and turbo - ($1400). Hasn't missed a beat since.

Cambelt was about $650.

Mine's done 150kms now. And yes, the interior does grow on you.

[BZG Wagon]

I also appreciate the extras like heated side mirrors

Dude I love those things - any dew or rain clears up within a few minutes. I miss it the most when I jump into my GF's car in the morning and can't use the mirrors (or freeze my hands trying to wipe them).

[Adamal]

Re the GT-B shocks, most, if not all are Bilsteins. $$$ to replace.
Either a rebuild which is around 3-500 each or something silly like $700 from Subaru.

Funny, thats about $100 less than what Nissan quoted me for standard replacement shocks in the Sil, and I sure as hell bet they wouldn't be Bilsteins!

[phoenix]

How about a Mark 11 Blit? Granted the rear looks like a reverse abortion but the front is E63ish and you get 1J VVTi power. Even GTE power if you can find one.

[dnalunchie]

Could find a nice 1JZGTE Soarer (auto) for 6-9k pretty easy

Mad pimping.

Lots of power.

The flying bar of soap