NZ Fastest toyota's down the strip....

[iOnic]

Nothing supernatural about it. They're just a better car.

[Dell'Orto]

Not even a better car, they just weigh less and have a tough driveline. Pull some weight out of a GT Four and it would do 12's fairly comfortably.

[dnalunchie]

Not even a better car, they just weigh less and have a tough driveline. Pull some weight out of a GT Four and it would do 12's fairly comfortably.

Do you guys think that the overall simplicity of the evo engine set up makes them easy to work on too?

[rollaholic]

the thing with evos is they were ridiculously quick in their day as stock cars, so a massive following was inevitable. popularity equals lots of R & D which equals lots of cheap and easy ways to make them faster.

the 3S has nothing like the same popularity, so its always going to be a heart choice

[strx7]

the TD05 spanks CT26/20 too which helps

[iOnic]

Just about anything you can buy for a 4G63 you can also buy for a 3SGTE (Cams, forged rods/pistons, cranks, manifolds stroker kits, turbo kits, intercooler kits, Plug in ECU's etc etc etc) so not sure how that's any different...

As for being simpler. I don't think the 4G63 engine is any simpler than the 3SGTE. It's just better thought out IMO. A lot of thought went into designing lighter, stronger and better performing parts and it shows. The 4G63 is physically a smaller (and lighter) engine than a 3SGTE while being just as strong (some would say stronger). Gearbox/Transfer case are also more compact (lighter) but much stronger. TD05 is physically almost half the size (and weight) of the CT26/20b while being able to flow a lot more air than either of the 3S's best turbos (many Evo's have run 11's on their factory turbo) etc

Evo2/3 TD05H vs ST185/SW20 CT26

[metal_sean_head]

Woah i didn't know the size difference was that big.

[Lloyd]

No one else finds the gearing through the evos to be a lot shorter for first few gears?

[strx7]

Gearbox/Transfer case are also more compact (lighter) but much stronger.

shouldn't that read ...........but NOT stronger........

a GT4 is over engineered in most aspects in relation to an evo.

Mitsi turbo's are may more efficient than toyota turbos hence the same or more power from a phyically smaller unit

[iOnic]

It was right the way it was written and I can't think of a single aspect where a GT4 is better engineered than an Evo of the same time. Enlighten me?

[sergei]

It was right the way it was written and I can't think of a single aspect where a GT4 is better engineered than an Evo of the same time. Enlighten me?

Gearbox is stronger (hence bigger). No hydraulic lifters, no rockers, no balancing shafts, push type clutch.

[matt dunn]

It was right the way it was written and I can't think of a single aspect where a GT4 is better engineered than an Evo of the same time. Enlighten me?

Gearbox is stronger (hence bigger). No hydraulic lifters, no rockers, no balancing shafts, push type clutch.

Have heard of far more Evo gearboxes broken than Gt4 boxes broken.

But unfortunatly overall stock for stock, Evo > Gt4,
and with the same mods to both, the difference only gets bigger.

[Lith]

The odds are you have a far bigger amount of EVOs to know of breaking gearboxes too, and on average I'd say an EVO gearbox has more reason to break. I don't know of any GT4 boxes breaking, but I also don't know of any GT4s doing much exciting.

[strx7]

It was right the way it was written and I can't think of a single aspect where a GT4 is better engineered than an Evo of the same time. Enlighten me?

You must have your head buried in the sand...........

ST185 gearboxtransfer vs E39A VR4 gearbox/transfer - I'd has at a guess the GT4 gearbox will happily put down 200HP+ more without breaking.

ST205 g'box/transfer vs EVO1-3 g'box/transfer - I'd guess about 200HP+ in favour of the GT4 here too.

Evo's are known for shreading driveline when given abuse. GT4 driveline just keeps coming back for more

[iOnic]

The likes of DOCILE/HAULN4 ran their stock gearboxes well into the 9 sec ~750hp range with big torque on slicks and there are countless others running similar power/torque through the stock box.

I'm sorry but I don't take guesses at the upper limits of a GT4 box as gospel and proof of their over engineering. I've heard the old wives tale of them being stronger than anything else but when it comes to proof, I'm yet to see it. As far as I can tell, the only basis for your argument is that the GT4 gearbox is stronger because it's bigger (lol) and you'd guess that it can put up with 200hp more than the Mitsi boxes (links to cars that did this?)

[strx7]

The likes of DOCILE/HAULN4 ran their stock gearboxes well into the 9 sec ~750hp range with big torque on slicks and there are countless others running similar power/torque through the stock box. )

if you believe that you will believe anything. they might have had the stock gearbox casing, but there is no way in hell, the internals were exactly as it left the factory.

[iOnic]

I've seen several of them in pieces and they are exactly as they left the factory aside from the addition of LSD's which if anything puts more shock/strain on the drivetrain. Belief has nothing to do with this. If you can't find any cars that support your claim at least explain where the GT4 box gets it's strength from? Does it have better designed gears (how?) Are the gears made from stronger materials? etc etc

[Malcolm]

FWIW I broke one of the helical bevel gears in the transfer case on my st185 from drag racing it. At the time it was probably making somewhere between 270-300hp @ engine (never dyno'ed but should have been somewhere around there) and doing low 13's. I haven't heard of anyone else doing the same though, and there are a decent number of gt-fours overseas running 11s and 12s (plus a couple in the 10s on stock boxes)

[Cakky]

theres no way the gearbox in DOCILE was standard. It had been cryotreated and had definitely been strengthed. Obviously it didn't last and then they went to I think a liberty setup? can't remember

[iOnic]

There is no simple or cheap solution to the issue of gearbox strength in the VR4-E3. BUT I'm not too sure what you are actually worrying about.... they are inherently very strong. I can't think of any other jap factory 4wd box that will tolerate 600+hp, and 9sec passes in std form. Cam, I have to actually disagree on the shift though... I have found the two boxes I have used to shift extremely fast (for a synchro box).

Andre

Blew 4th gear after 8 passes on a freshly rebuilt, cryo treated, and cracktested box. My current box is NOT cryo treated.... I will put the couple hundred dollars towards my next box!

On second thought, that might be a bit to harsh as far as conclusions go! My useage is probably a bit outside the usual, and I'm certainly not surprised that the box has a hard time! The reality is that the box would blow cryo or not. I believe that cryo treatment probably is beneficial, but it would be almost impossible to quantify the differences.

Andre

Take from that what you will. I think it's safe to say that the gearbox was upgraded more due to the fact that the car was now making ~1200hp as opposed to 6-700