shitty way to lose a young life,

[Mr Revhead]

^ I agree.

What needs to happen is pre education... Total revamp of the licensing system etc.
Teach people to drive. Not how to pass a scratchie test.

[Truenotch]

There are some really good ideas here...

It's a pity that this campaign was the best the NZ police could come up with:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/local-governm ... d=10681529

And the original ad:
http://www.sella.co.nz/motoring/cars/su ... ?more_info

[pc]

I hate it how they make such a big deal of the car being modified... it had no bearing on the outcome. If some sh!tty uncertified welding had failed and caused the crash, or something like that, then that would be a factor.
His reckless crap driving in rush hour in a busy area caused the death... not the modifications.

Did the investigation not find that the illegal mods contributed to the loss of control? I recall reading it did...

Ummm.. and how do you suppose that is... the wheels were mounted sideways? It doesn't detail what was faulty with the modifications.
What probably happened is that the defence lawyer pushed the hell out of the "uncerted modifications" point to divert as much attention as possible away from his client's terrible driving.

[iOnic]

Investigation never ruled that the accident was caused by illegal modifications. In fact after the initial enquiry the Police didn't pay much attention to the car. All they said was that it had uncertified lowered suspension that made it easier for the car to slide (which it would have done regardless of whether the suspension was certified or not). Their findings were that the accident was due to driver error/driver experience.

The media are the ones that are focussing on the car (to cash in on boyracer hype?). Police said very early on that there was no "boyracer element" in the crash.

[Chelles]

I am very relieved that a lot of you are NOT part of our justice system. Emotion, half information (thanks to the media) and assumption is rife on this thread.

I for one am thankful we have people who have genuine grace and the ability to forgive someone who is truly remorseful for their actions. That takes a lot more courage to do than sit back and berate the situation and the people involved.

Now, how about we all join a Motorsport NZ car club, do some autocross' and other events to learn control of our cars and encourage others to do the same. Don't rely on the government to come up with a solution for you, your friends and family. Take matters into your own hands and learn what you are doing so you don't have to be in a situation like this to fine out what you are really made of.

Wouldn't it be refreshing to see a bunch of young people approach a car club and say "hey we want to learn how to driver properly". Or am I living in my world of hope and fairy land.

Ahhh I say bring on the driving system they have in Finland!!! If you haven't heard about it google it... then you'll see why there are so many rally champions from over that way.

Anyways... as you were.
Chelles

[Mr Revhead]

I hate it how they make such a big deal of the car being modified... it had no bearing on the outcome. If some sh!tty uncertified welding had failed and caused the crash, or something like that, then that would be a factor.
His reckless crap driving in rush hour in a busy area caused the death... not the modifications.

Did the investigation not find that the illegal mods contributed to the loss of control? I recall reading it did...

Ummm.. and how do you suppose that is... the wheels were mounted sideways? It doesn't detail what was faulty with the modifications.
What probably happened is that the defence lawyer pushed the hell out of the "uncerted modifications" point to divert as much attention as possible away from his client's terrible driving.

It had coilovers suited to a race track, not the road. As is the case with a lot around... Ie waaay too stiff.
It was nothing to do with the lawyer, I'm pretty sure it was in the investigation done by the crash unit.

[saft]

Wouldn't it be refreshing to see a bunch of young people approach a car club and say "hey we want to learn how to driver properly".

Can we teach them the essentials of the english language before they learn how to driver properly?

[BZG Wagon]

Just watched that 'Police 10/7'...

Drunk driver + almost crashing several times down the motorway + running from the police + swapping drivers when out of police sight.

Penalty: $650 fine; 12 month disqualfication.
Drunk passenger who swap with driver; no fine or charges.

Is it me or does it totally seem worthwhile trying to run from police?

Why isn't there a manditory court summons combined with a 3 month (non-parole) jail sentence tagged onto the end of it?

[pc]

It had coilovers suited to a race track, not the road. As is the case with a lot around... Ie waaay too stiff.
It was nothing to do with the lawyer, I'm pretty sure it was in the investigation done by the crash unit.

Way too stiff may be a factor if he hit some undulations at open road speed and bounced off the road, but that's not what happened. In my experience stiff suspension makes controlling slides much easier, so if anything he was driving a car that would have been easier to correct after loosing control.

I obviously don't have the same faith that the media reported it accurately and/or that it was investigated correctly.

I agree with Chelles that if people have more first hand knowledge about their vehicle and their own abilities, they will be better equiped if they want to drive appropriately on the road.

[Chelles]

Wouldn't it be refreshing to see a bunch of young people approach a car club and say "hey we want to learn how to driver properly".

Can we teach them the essentials of the english language before they learn how to driver properly?

4 sur M8, dat wud b Kool A
However itd a pipe dream like teaching them drive property

[iOnic]

It had coilovers suited to a race track, not the road. As is the case with a lot around... Ie waaay too stiff.
It was nothing to do with the lawyer, I'm pretty sure it was in the investigation done by the crash unit.

What a crock. He would still have had the same suspension whether the car was certified or not and he would still have crashed and killed a kid. The only difference between whether his car was legal or not would have been a cert plate and let's face it - they don't prevent crashes. His suspension didn't cause the crash - he managed that one all on his lonesome because he had no idea what to do to recover an out of control car. There are plenty of people that have driven for years on stiff coilovers (myself included) and if anything it's made the car easier to control if things go pear shaped.

The media are just trying to shine the light on the car to make this a big boy racer story and by the looks of things it's working.

[Mr Revhead]

Oh ffs.
Race suspension does not belong on the road.
IT DOES NOT MAKE YOUR CAR SAFER.
Adding coil overs to your car is not an automatic upgrade. In many cases it makes the car less safe. Too stiff and you lose grip, makes the car more prone to sudden lose of grip. That in NO way is safer.

Iirc the POLICE report said the suspension was unsafe. It was not illegal soley due to the non cert, but was illegal in that it was not fit for cert.
No, it was not the sole cause of the crash, but it probably had a part to play in it.


Stop trying to blame the media... In this case they are only repeating that the crash report said.
Hell they even state he is not a "boy racer"

What is a crock is car forums automatically blaming the media for things they don't like.

[iOnic]

I'd better pull the coilovers out of the MR2. Couldn't figure out why I kept losing control randomly and killing kids.

Oh wait...

[Mr Revhead]

You're a mechanic. Surely you understand how suspension works and what it's purpose is. If you do then you will also know that too stiff and limited travel is dangerious. You will also understand that just because it has been modified from stock, that it is not automatically safe and an improvement. If you do not understand those things, well....

[iOnic]

I know how it works and what it's purpose is and I do agree that it's not an instant upgrade - in fact I've done a lot of work to my car to make it handle better and be less prone to bump steer etc.

What I'm saying is that simply fitting a set of off the shelf struts (which this guy did) doesn't instantly make your car an unsafe mess. This person is on the Silvia forums and his suspension was not "unsafe" (as it has been reported). It's a common brand that was fitted by a reputable place and the car was due to be certified. It did not go in for a cert and fail (as has been implied in reports). It also didn't crash because the suspension failed in any way.

The blame for this falls squarely on him as the Police, the vitcims, his parents and the driver himself have all stated. HE decided to drive a car that was illegal for road use on the road, HE started the sequence of events that led to the crash and HE failed to recover the car once said sequence had started. I completely agree that the suspension played a part - but it would have been no different if he just had a generic spring and shock combo. Once your car is sideways, it's up to you to control it. Good suspension doesn't make up for 0 driving skill. If you can't control a car with stiff suspension then that is your fault not the suspension's fault.

Yes the suspension was a factor - but not as big a factor as it's been made out to be. Some could say he had poor quality chinese tyres and that cause the crash, or that his car came out with no LSD which made it harder to control while sideways which caused the crash, or that he had shitty brakes that locked up and caused the crash - there are any number of car related reasons that can be made but ultimate he crashed because he didn't know how to drive his car - that's not the car's fault.

[Mr Revhead]

You just agreed with my point.... and then disagreed in the next paragraph...
And condraticed yourself several times....

[iOnic]

Your point is that he had suspension that was way too stiff - I agree
You're following the line that if he did not have this suspension, he wouldn't have crashed - I disagree

I firmly believe that he crashed because of a lack of driving skill/experience. A cert plate wouldn't have prevented the crash.

Do you disagree?

[edwagon]

It had coilovers suited to a race track, not the road. As is the case with a lot around... Ie waaay too stiff.
It was nothing to do with the lawyer, I'm pretty sure it was in the investigation done by the crash unit.

What a crock. He would still have had the same suspension whether the car was certified or not and he would still have crashed and killed a kid. The only difference between whether his car was legal or not would have been a cert plate and let's face it - they don't prevent crashes. His suspension didn't cause the crash - he managed that one all on his lonesome because he had no idea what to do to recover an out of control car. There are plenty of people that have driven for years on stiff coilovers (myself included) and if anything it's made the car easier to control if things go pear shaped.

The media are just trying to shine the light on the car to make this a big boy racer story and by the looks of things it's working.

This is why I always make sure my stuff is Legal - not because I'm scared of getting pulled over so much, but because, if ever there was an accident, you gotta know that if you have un-certed mods, you'll get taken to the cleaners!
As soon as they are not certed when they should be (eg: coilovers), they are not legal, which is only arguing semantics-away from being called 'illegal modifications'

I kinda agree that some coilovers are a bit stiffer than ideal for normal road use, and if you wanted to twist that around, you could say that they were more suited to the track - but, like iOnic, have driven around for years on coilovers that were on the hard side and not had the car spontaneously spear off onto the footpath.
The police report said the car has been 'set up to slide', which I guess pretty much defines any rwd nissan but as someone else said, its a drawing a long bow to say that unless it had castors fitted instead of rear wheels!

I agree that its driver error - easy to say 'he shoulda been able to control the car once it started skidding' - but more to the point, should have had a bit more judgement and not let it slide in the first place in rush hour traffic with people around- either attempting a sneaky little skid that got away from him, or just accelerating a bit too hard and skidding by (genuine) accident.

[Mr Revhead]

Your point is that he had suspension that was way too stiff - I agree
You're following the line that if he did not have this suspension, he wouldn't have crashed - I disagree

I firmly believe that he crashed because of a lack of driving skill/experience. A cert plate wouldn't have prevented the crash.

Do you disagree?

I am certainly not saying if he did not have that suspension he wouldn't have crashed.
I am saying there is a bloody good chance the suspension helped in the loss of control or contributed to the lack of catching it.
I am also saying that I recall reading that the report said it was not fit for road use due to being unsuitable, not just un certed.
Certainly there was a massive element of driver idiocy.

[FANGIN]

Hold up, if NZ had decent roads, we wouldn't need to worry about out suspension being "too stiff". Back in my younger days I drove around in cars with NO springs, idiotic sure, but I never once had a problem with drifting into families.

Suspension CAN be too hard for the street. I learnt this the hard way then my mates boss took me for a ride in his Evo 8 track car, we hit a fairly large bump in the road mid corner, he lost it, and I ended up with a broken ankle & a bleeding nose. Yet my car on TRD adjustibles set almost to their hardest gets through that corner at that speed fine.

If NZ roads were as good as Germany's, I think the road toll would be alot lower.

At the end of the day, it was this guys actions, and his alone that caused this incident, and he will have to live with the fact for the rest of his life.