shitty way to lose a young life,

[Mr.Phreak]

I'd put it to you that if there was a four- lane dual carriage way from Whangarei to Invercargill , the number of deaths resulting from truck crashes will be at 1/3rd of where they are now.

Yeah, cos they don't have any truck crashes on the American Interstates

[Bling]

How about posting up these stats you directly blame on the roads and not the fact people cross the middle line thingy on the roads. Ignoring the fact a road that large would ruin us

[S T E A L T H]

Band aid.
Teach people to drive cars and you will also lower the road toll dramatically.

Most certainly. But it isn't the full solution.

1) Driver training & tougher tests
2) Better roads.
3) Reducing the average age of the vehicle fleet. Requirement for ESP to be standard on all new cars sold.

[Lloyd]

You cant teach people to drive over here, at least half aren't aware that their car is equipped with indicators and the same proportion of people still cant work out what to do with them at a simple roundabout.

Getting them not to drive into trucks sounds like a huge challenge


Screw ESP, if your driver training was up to the standard that it should be then you wouldn't need ESP or to limit the age of the vehicle on the road. Which I also think is a stupid idea.


The roads aren't bad, the people on them are the issue




At least the cops get some of them speeding in their Commodores on the motorways up north however....

[Bling]

Sure reducing the age of the fleet will give people a higher chance of living as their cars turn into a giant pillow. But some people prefer to drive old cars

Reducing the age of cars is still a bandaid. Driving a newer car doesn't make you a better driver.

Roads can be harsh on cars sure, but again, they don't force people to crash. Perfect roads will not educate drivers. I just did 1500km and amazingly saw no one being a dick on the road. I can drive for half an hour in town and see 10 dumb things. My rear shocks are proof the roads aren't perfect, but as Revhead says, the road never once tried to kill me.

The only point you got right Stealth IMO is number one. It will always come back to that.

[Al]

If NZ roads were as good as Germany's, I think the road toll would be alot lower.

Go right ahead and charge $2.80/litre for petrol and $2.40 for diesel.

Also their total tax revenue is over 500 billion euros a year with the top rate of 45% for the 'rich pricks'. 500 billion? That is twenty times what NZ's tax take is.

I'm sure most small countries could have nice roads with those numbers.

[S T E A L T H]

I'd put it to you that if there was a four- lane dual carriage way from Whangarei to Invercargill , the number of deaths resulting from truck crashes will be at 1/3rd of where they are now.

Yeah, cos they don't have any truck crashes on the American Interstates

USA fatal truck crash rate is significantly lower than ours.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-research/research-technology/report/large-truck-crash-facts-2005/fig2.htm

vs

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Trucks_2009.pdf
compare 2005 - just over 2 fatal crashes per 100 million MILES vs over 3 fatals per 100 million KMS

[Bling]

Open road head-on crashes are a major feature in fatal truck crashes. The truck driver has the
primary responsibility for only about a quarter of these crashes.

I've lost track of what trucks have to do with all this, but this is an interesting point ^^

[S T E A L T H]

You cant teach people to drive over here, at least half aren't aware that their car is equipped with indicators and the same proportion of people still cant work out what to do with them at a simple roundabout.

Getting them not to drive into trucks sounds like a huge challenge


Screw ESP, if your driver training was up to the standard that it should be then you wouldn't need ESP or to limit the age of the vehicle on the road. Which I also think is a stupid idea.


The roads aren't bad, the people on them are the issue

I've higlighted the contradictory bits that nicely prove my point.

It would take years of training for an average NZ driver to reach the level of aptitude that would make ESP redundant. A large percentage will never get to that point at all. Simple fact is making ESP standard will save lives. I'm not above admitting that it's helped me out a few times

Noone is saying we need to have an age limit ( I like old cars too ). I'm saying we need to work towards reducing the AVERAGE age. Getting rid of the tidal wave of cheap crap from Japan and Singapore would be a good start.

[Lloyd]

Ummm.... that wave of cheap crap from Singapore and Japan comes with ESP, traction control, ABS, airbags etc etc being that you cant get much of the older vehicles in now that you're talking about.

Yeah alright, first line may have been a bit over the top lol. People need educated, but people don't care enough to do anything about it. ESP is only going to handle certain situations. A fair proportion of crashes are on car with ABS and all the bells and whistles, but the fact it kicked in doesn't take away from the fact that the brakes were applied to late or that the driver didn't turn the steering wheel until moments before the crash. Driver ability is the biggest issues. If everyone in the country was driving something older than 10 years old I cant see the fatalities going up all that much.

[tsoob]

come on mate,my car dont have esp or airbags, and i dont see it as a problem. the roads are fine, DRIVER EDUCATION is what is needed in this country.

[sergei]

Straight roads KILL.
Pay attention to the scuff marks on motorway barrier, and skid marks in general. You will find there are more of them on straight pieces than with corners.

If there was straight dual carriageway motorway between Auckland and Wellington, I still would take national park route.

I have done ~15000kms in Australia (East coast) and I realised the following things:
1) Australians drive as bad as kiwis.
1a) Australians have even more disregard for speed limit
1b) Australians have even worse overtaking skills
2) Roads are worse than here
2a) The surface is of lower quality
2b) The roundabouts and exits are badly designed
3) I hate straight roads, they tire me more than anything (perhaps being stuck behind campervan is worse).

[MrOizo]

Straight roads KILL.
Pay attention to the scuff marks on motorway barrier, and skid marks in general. You will find there are more of them on straight pieces than with corners.

Yeah - i think people think that because its straight, there is less risk and you see other drivers on their phones. Corners keep your mind working and not going into standby.

Isnt there a straight road over seas somewhere where it is designed to have a crest and curve every so often to 'wake' people up?

[FANGIN]

Might be oversimplyfying it but road safety comes down to 3 things
1) Driver (skill of the average driver)
2) Vehicle (age and mechanical condition of the fleet)
3) Environment (road conditions)

Really we aren't doing too well here in NZ on any of those.

Those are the three criteria the Serious Crash unit investigate to establish the cause of any major crashes. If you can improve the quality of any of the three of these, you will most likely decrease the chance of an accident.

[BZG Wagon]

come on mate,my car dont have esp or airbags, and i dont see it as a problem. the roads are fine, DRIVER EDUCATION is what is needed in this country.

After a van ran a stop sign and hit my partners car, I believe airbags are a must. It prevented a lot of damage to my partner.

Agree ESP & ABS aren't necessary if people knew how to drive properly.

I don't want ABS on gravel, I don't think it makes me stop faster, and over zealous ESP can be dangerous (like in older mercs, which cut power and leave you sitting in the middle of an intersection).

[andrewgreen1000]

I think this could help with driver training in NZ:

My parents have just set up a new business using drving simulators to teach people (especially learners) how to drive properly from the start. As this is done all off road there is no risk etc. It is unbiased and has no bad habits to pass on which is good. They have been made by eca faros in france, who make simulators for airbus. Its not a replacement for on road drving instructor training but it is a start to be used in conjunction with it. The software has been developed in conjunction with Nottingham University in the UK using their accident data and research.

At the moment it is only in CHCH, but trying to get it all over NZ.

The website is a bit budget at the moment, but we are getting there.

www.ssdt.co.nz

[Bling]

Sounds like a very good start! Nice one.
Edit: just one thing, typo on address on contact page FYI

[blindnz]

i think i saw this at riccarton mall

[andrewgreen1000]

Yeah that was them. they are pretty cool, we are still trying to work out a few bugs, but all the basic training stuff is there at the moment. just struggling to find customers at the moment cos it is such a new thing. So spread the word!

Edit: thanks will fix the address up!

[Al]

The mother responds to Michael Laws and dare I say it, much of the country.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-time ... ons-memory