megasquirt?, link?

[RedMist]

sounds like a whole shit load more effort than fitting and tuning a link.

That's the difference between "hotrodders" and "chequeboook racers".

Hotrodders find the best factory parts and make them work themselves.
Chequebook racers pay other people to do the work for them.

So effort....yes
But you save megadollars and end up with a far better result and score another "first"

Steve

I would think quite the opposite. Coming from a background of trying to fudge things to make them work, you'll generally spend considerably more than taking the big bite the first time. More often than not you'll also end up with a compromised solution.
So for the Evo ECU, you need to replicate all the onboard sensors, fool those you can't replicate, bypass any security (such as keys), buy tuning devices. It all soon adds up to the point where you're spending close on Link money. Then you'll have to spend hundreds of hours researching and configuring only to have a solution that nobody has tried before, has no support in it's configuration and possibly won't work.

I'm incredibly happy with my G4 ECU's. It's Motec features for a quarter the price. Support from Link has also been exceptional. The ECU's have also taken a shyte load of abuse from Offroad Racing/rallying without faulting once.
I've gotten so familiar with the datalogging software/ecu tuning software that it'll take some convincing to shift. However if I wasn't embedded in Link tech, had a bit of time on my hands, and I wasn't into such abusive sports I'd certainly go MegaSquirt.

[MAGN1T]

It's far too boring doing the same old shit all the time, plus there's no progress being a follower.

Steve

[wde_bdy]

I'm curious how many people here have used Megasquirt and/or done their own tuning?
Currently working on 8 motorbike throttles for my V8 and was considering a pre-built Megasquirt. How hard is it to get hold of base maps to at least get you started? Have heard multi throttle setups are much harder to tune, especially using auto tune. My problem is I am a long way from any decent tuners.

Callum

[MAGN1T]

Motorcycles don't use speed density with individual T/Bs, they use alpha N.
That's due to zero chance of getting a clean MAP signal.

Steve

[QikStarlie]

individual throttles are harder to tune than a single throttle yes, combined with large cams makes it worse. map vs rpm wont work on on most individual throttles, without compromise (rich and lean areas) . tuning in tps vs map (alpha n) is the easiest way around it. alot of new ecu's can do 4d mapping so you can run tps&map vs rpm but ive found its not worth the extra tuning time, and complex setup over alpha n.
base map for your setup. you might be able to find something to get it started or copy to get it started, dont expect alot more than that though.

run a ms3 on my 16v 4age, quad throttles, 310deg cams etc. its the hardest thing ive tuned(engine not the ecu). standard n/a and turbo cars are a walk in the park compared to it. alot of it it to do with the cams rather than the throttles though. have had the same setup running on a link g3/4 also

The idea of building your own megasquirt out of a kit sounds like fun.

If you are wanting a conservative tune - it is feasible to have a crack yourself with a wideband and a street tune? i.e. is it a stupid idea to teach yourself to tune?

please feel free to drag me back down to earth if im talking bollocks

go for it. just be careful. very easy to destroy an engine, if you go about it the wrong way. i taught myself to tune due to lack of tuners in my area. saved myself many thousands. but you need to get your head around how fuel and igniton maps work before you even attempt it. looks like a bunch of meaningless numbers to most people

[ChaosAD]

Have gone the evoscan route with the lancer.
Cost about $300 for the tuning adapter, $400 for the evo8 ecu, $30 for the software and your limited to the number of times you can reflash the ecu.
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=evo8+ecu&_sacat=See-All-Categories
http://www.evoscan.com/evoscan-gps-obdii-cables

Not too bad if you own an evo or similar and have a decent base map to start from, but once you go retrofitting it to another car the money would probably be better spent on an aftermarket ecu.

As for road tuning an ecu. The fuelling is easy if you have a wideband oxy sensor. Even if you dont have a driver, all the megasquirt ecu's and most other aftermarket ecu's have self tuning features to adjust the VE tables based on datalogs or in realtime.
http://www.ideasandsolutions.biz/MegaLogViewer/veAnalysis.html


You want to dial in the ignition map for maximum torque with the least amount of timing (mbt). The easiest way to do that is with a steady state dyno.
You could road tune it by doing back to back runs on a flat patch of road and plotting torque graphs with an accelerometer, would be very tedious though.

Megasquirt MS2 has an ITB mode which gives the best of both worlds.
http://77e21.info/mstuning_itbmode.htm

[Lith]

Nice I have to stop procrastinating about looking at Megasquirts, really. I had initially wanted to play with one due to the open source nature of them, but ended up finding that some of the things I'd wanted to look into playing with the code behind to experiment with are actually effectively covered due to the flexibility of the G4 Link.

The 4/5/6d mapping options you have allow all sorts of adjustments to the fuel and ignition lookups based on user defined axis which can be used to have similar effect to what the MS does to tune ITBs.

[solitaire]

Couldnt sleep last night so spent some time reading the megasquirt documents, man its actually really interesting stuff - but so much of it.

[ChaosAD]

Also keep in mind that the latest MS3 daughterboard isn't open source

[tsoob]

sounds like a whole shit load more effort than fitting and tuning a link.

That's the difference between "hotrodders" and "chequeboook racers".

Hotrodders find the best factory parts and make them work themselves.
Chequebook racers pay other people to do the work for them.

So effort....yes
But you save megadollars and end up with a far better result and score another "first"

Steve

You sound like the kind of guy who puts more value on a dollar than your time.

[MAGN1T]

You sound like the kind of guy who puts more value on a dollar than your time.

There's a cheap way to do everything, you won't find out unless you're willing to put the time into it.
Chequebook racers will never do better than second without shop sponsorship, that's because the hotrodders get the firsts.

Steve

[spencer]

^ this isn't 1970 no one on here has "shop sponsorship" or a massive cheque book

We are talking about the best EFI options for this chap on a budget. As said above the mitsi option is great for a mitsi, go fit it to something else and the dollars spent will add up quickly to a aftermarket ECU. Also the perfectly valid option of megasquirt is actually cheaper than the gear to flash the mitsi ECU

I don't see why you waste so much time trolling these car forums, surely one of your cars has a BHG to fix?

[RedMist]

You sound like the kind of guy who puts more value on a dollar than your time.

There's a cheap way to do everything, you won't find out unless you're willing to put the time into it.
Chequebook racers will never do better than second without shop sponsorship, that's because the hotrodders get the firsts.

Steve

Steve, have you ever been involved in compeditive racing? I've not yet been involved in one motorsport that hasn't required money to get to the front. Your definition of "hotrodders" are generally tail enders or people left with a DNF on the results sheet.
I think ChaosAD has proven a foible in your Evo ECU proposal. Simply the limited reflashes will severely restrict tuning (unless the limit is in the 100's).
The Megasquirt is a fantastic ECU for the money and given a tonne of research is certainly capable.
The Link is better supported by more tuners and has a hell of a lot of very good features. Datalogging and Analysis have really come along, plugging into an external dash (I'm running AIM, soon to also run an ADL), and more features than you'll need on your installation.

Were I you. Didn't have the requirement to bash the shyte out of the ECU and still have it work (offroad racing). I'd go Megasquirt. Not only will it run your engine quite successfully but the research side of the installation will also make you very familiar with EFI systems. I've read most of the Megasquirt documentation simply because it's applicable to every ECU and is reasonably easy to follow (even if there is a tonne of it!).

[sergei]

only down side of megasquirt (unless it is pre-assembled) is that you add another layer of possible failures - your own workmanship in the soldering/assembly department. But if you are confident in your soldering skills - then it should not be a problem, as far as I know it is just straight assembly (put the components in, trim, solder).

[spencer]

I've built then tuned a couple cars on MS and the learning experience is invaluable. Never had any installation issues with components, but yes it could easily happen. You can buy a surface mounted pre assembled board which would be pretty bullet proof

Biggest thing I dont like about the MS 3 is the 6x6 tables for VVTi tuning, the code needs to go open source on the 3 so this can be opened up, the resolution is far to small

[RedMist]

IBiggest thing I dont like about the MS 3 is the 6x6 tables for VVTi tuning, the code needs to go open source on the 3 so this can be opened up, the resolution is far to small

With a blacktop he's not going to experience issues with VVTi.

[QikStarlie]

they are working on vvti in the latest alpha codes. they a constantly adding more features and fixing bugs on ms3. official 1.0 code has not long been released

[JustinSpiderholden]

Any of you guys looked into :

http://www.diyefi.org/

[tsoob]

You sound like the kind of guy who puts more value on a dollar than your time.

There's a cheap way to do everything, you won't find out unless you're willing to put the time into it.
Chequebook racers will never do better than second without shop sponsorship, that's because the hotrodders get the firsts.

Steve

You see steve i am by no means 'cheap' unlike yourself.


In this case id say the guy will likely get by just fine on the megasquirt.

My choice would still be the link as it leaves you options in the future if you decide to turbo etc.

[iOnic]

About the only real advantage of Link vs MS is you don't have to build a Link, you don't have to spend hours figuring stuff out and if something doesn't work - you can pick up the phone and get it sorted out.

Feature wise, they're fairly even. Some features are more refined on Links but I personally find MS more fun/educational to work with.

If you can afford a Link, save yourself the headache and get one. If you're like me and like to learn as you do things then MS will teach you far more about EFI systems than any course/seminar you can attend. I fully recommend that everyone with an interest in tuning builds and installs one at some point - even if it's in just a basic runabout type car.