4agze 4afe head.

[mega4a]

complete blacktop motors inc throttles occasionally come up cheap, i bought one for $200 about a year ago... shouldnt have given that away

yeah pick a part a black top head. =] cheap
but ive got a fe head

if it was 9.8 compression with 4agze bottom fe head. high compression strong turbo motor?

[mega4a]

I think it be lower c.p becasue gze piston are more dished then 4afe ones.
dont they make a 7afte factory toyota spec 100 only ever made or something?

[Mr Revhead]

Toyota Australia made some kits and fitted them to 7afe Corollas and sold them through dealers.

[Bazda]

The 20v BT heads flows a considerable amount more in stock form over the 16v 4age redtop. I dont know about the fe heads but I doubt they would flow as good as a 20v head! if they did then the engine in stock form should be producing more power than the 20v engines.

BT head Intake 210CFM, exhaust 140CFM
(0.500" lift corrected to 28")

A stock 16v small port would flow around 185CFM on the intake and 115CFM on the exhaust.

This CFM of course matters on a boosted application. Normally a small port would see around 200-230kw atw, a 20v BT would see from 230-270kw atw on the same setups.

A stock fe head flows a little less than a small port does in stock form.
The only real advantage is the fe head can be modified easily to flow alot. So if your not planning of doing head porting your going backwards over a 20v head.

[mega4a]

The 20v BT heads flows a considerable amount more in stock form over the 16v 4age redtop. I dont know about the fe heads but I doubt they would flow as good as a 20v head! if they did then the engine in stock form should be producing more power than the 20v engines.

BT head Intake 210CFM, exhaust 140CFM
(0.500" lift corrected to 28")

A stock 16v small port would flow around 185CFM on the intake and 115CFM on the exhaust.

This CFM of course matters on a boosted application. Normally a small port would see around 200-230kw atw, a 20v BT would see from 230-270kw atw on the same setups.

A stock fe head flows a little less than a small port does in stock form.
The only real advantage is the fe head can be modified easily to flow alot. So if your not planning of doing head porting your going backwards over a 20v head.

Your:
1.04.8 19psi Pukekohe
Ill Be:
1.XX.X 30psi Pukekohe
(Pushing ~same CFM through intake as you)

My point is proven by you telling me statistics on other heads than mine, If i run more boost and leave the FE head as is i can run a higher CFM than a 20V head at a lower boost. I dont care for turbo lag as its a fuel efficient zone for when not accelerating in my view. So i will therefor be running a CFM value close to what you make just at a different RPM and higher boost correct ?

[mega4a]

and who had ever maxed the cfm maximum of any head ? wouldnt you just go up in air density / boost ?

[Mr Revhead]

What creates more heat.....

[mega4a]

What creates more heat.....

A large efficient turbo with a meaty a/r would be creating the same heat as a smaller one working twice as hard ?

Im sure 1980s formula 1 renault heads running 5bar wouldn't have issues and we have come 20 years since then ?

Id target a a/r thats a higher rpm full boost level like i was talking about before but still have its compressor range under the surge/stall on the a/r map so it would lag but be more efficient in its full boost range if targeted right.

[Mr Revhead]

The fuel they used back then was rather different

[~SlideWays~]

They were grenades with big budgets too!

Have you thought about what is going to start giving up at 30psi? Valve springs? Gaskets?

[mega4a]

The fuel they used back then was rather different

Back then isnt very specific,

Theres plenty of cars i could show you running 40+psi on pump gas making good power numbers.

With 1000cc injector units to cool i dont think its the head thats going to matter.

[mega4a]

They were grenades with big budgets too!

Have you thought about what is going to start giving up at 30psi? Valve springs? Gaskets?

30psi was an exaggeration but if i had to run that to meet the CFM values desired to make the wheel KW and the math proved it could be done without ill effects why wouldnt i ?

[Mr Revhead]

Um, you were talking about Renault F1 turbo engines in the 80s...
In saying "back then" I thought it would be pretty obvious....

[gasman]

Flow is Flow,

20psi on a black top vs 30psi on a fe to flow the same mass of air into the cylinders, you will be working the turbo much harder and hence making much more heat.

you can go for a bigger turbo to bring the efficiency zone of the thurbo more inline with the pressure ratio you want to run but then you will have a lag monster. if you used the same turbo on a black top head at the same pressure ratio imagine how much more power you could make compared to the fe head.

i am not saying its a bad idea to do a 4agze bottom end with a fe head, just to expect better results than if you started off with the better option, would be wrong.

[mega4a]

Flow is Flow,

20psi on a black top vs 30psi on a fe to flow the same mass of air into the cylinders, you will be working the turbo much harder and hence making much more heat.

you can go for a bigger turbo to bring the efficiency zone of the thurbo more inline with the pressure ratio you want to run but then you will have a lag monster. if you used the same turbo on a black top head at the same pressure ratio imagine how much more power you could make compared to the fe head.

i am not saying its a bad idea to do a 4agze bottom end with a fe head, just to expect better results than if you started off with the better option, would be wrong.

well i started in the wrong place anyway having a 4afe and turboing it..
id be happy with a 300hp 4afe at 20psi. daily driver

[Bazda]

Seems like you already know more than us. So we will let you get on with your project.

With you on 30psi, you prob have a lag monster so would need 40psi to make up for all the lost time out of the corners , then your eng will blow up after 2 laps making you look rather awesome.

we are here to help you spend your money wisely and get good results at the same time.

Why would you spend say for example $1000 of a fe head to get 300hp, when you can spend the same amount and get 400hp :S.

[iOnic]

Theres plenty of cars i could show you running 40+psi on pump gas making good power numbers.

Such as?

[mega4a]

Seems like you already know more than us. So we will let you get on with your project.

With you on 30psi, you prob have a lag monster so would need 40psi to make up for all the lost time out of the corners , then your eng will blow up after 2 laps making you look rather awesome.

we are here to help you spend your money wisely and get good results at the same time.

Why would you spend say for example $1000 of a fe head to get 300hp, when you can spend the same amount and get 400hp :S.

jut saying its possible in my veiw to achive the same cfm that the 20v head could with a fe head, 30psi was an example exaggeration whatever not going to actually run 30psi and race round pukekohe.

[Rookie]

Yea I have to agree with the others, you ask what's best, we tell you, then you argue with us, what's the point?

In a turbo motor CFM is king, and without spending the money on the FE head you are wasting your time.

I must say Barry, that posting up the Blacktop flows at .500" is a misleading. You will struggle get that much lift in a blacktop head.
You will find that real world flow is around 185-190 CFM and .350"
and a properly ported FE will piss on that, but again if you don't do the work then it is pointless.

As for refering to F1 engines, you mad? You think the a pleb spec road car head from the same era is going to compare? Ask anyone that actually knows a thing or two and the answer will always be try and make the most power with the least boost.

[Rookie]

Oh and as for a head that flows more but makes less power, sure you can if the cams are such that they don't promote power.