Kelford "Streetfighter" Cams

[Twolitre]

Hey,
has anyone tried Kelford Cams "streetfighter" cams out or know someone who has? I'm considering a set for a 4AGE and was wondering if there is much of a gain to be had with them?

[PRYMORTAL]

from memory they claim a 10% gain which is about 16.5HP increase if what they say is true (4a-ge 20V silvertop)

but most aftermarket place's say cams r the best mod for quick hP

[sl]

I've always wondered, with the 20V's.. would you have to ditch the variable intake pulley and fit adjustable's?

[Sanxta]

yeah ive been in touch with kelfors about a year ago they highly ercommend you get their adjustable cam gears for like $350 or sum thin

[ChaosAD]

Note when they say the cams give u 'X' amount of Hp, that is the increace from stock including intake and exhaust. Adjustable cam gears for $225 a pair exchange from palmside nz, just look them up on the net.

[RedMist]

The Palmside ones are just standard ones cut to make the adjustable. You also get some throttle response from going proper aftermarket lighter cam pulleys.
I don't like reduced base circle cams. They alter (read $&#$% up ) your valve train geometry. You end up wearing the engine much quicker and have problems with a linea lift.
Kelfords also do argon built up cams which aren't as expensive as billets which may be the dogs danglers. I run argon built up cams in the 16 valve. 300 degree 415 thou lift cams that have been run for years and yet show no sign of wear.

[ChaosAD]

Are they the $800 ones? I heard that you cant use synthetics with them for some reason. with the reground cams they also narrow the bearing, as the buckets have to come up further, would this cause the engine to use more oil?

[ChaosAD]

how much are the scratch built pulleys?

[RedMist]

Are we talking 20 valve here? If so then you need a custom billet cam gear for the intake side. The exhaust side can be exchanged for a 16 valve one.
I bought a TRD one from Sollit, however I don't think he stocks them anymore. (It's now bolted to Mister2's turbo 20 valve).
In regards to synthetics I've never heard of that one, however I would ensure that you run a good cam break in oil. Redline make a good one.
Again I'm against reground cams in a modern engine. Your right about the bucket being more exposed because of the reduced base circle. You can just imagine the stresses on the bucket when the lobe strikes it!
Your also increasing the weight of your drivetrain by adding bigger shims or increasing the length of your valves.
Try
http://www.tedcomponents.com/kamakazeekams.htm
or
Tighe cams... I always spell this wrong.

[ChaosAD]

Ive got a 16v and I try to stay clear of trd equipment because although they are excellent quality they are usually three times the price you would expect to pay for other brands.
Because the cam lobes are so close to the bearing journal on the 16v and the bucket comes up further than normal (due to the reduced base circle), It will interfere with the bearing journal. The way they get around this is to narrow the bearing journal so that it is no longer in the way.
Because oil is being constantly fed to the journals wouldnt this cause less restriction and reduce the oil pressure?
Kelford deny this however im a little skeptical.
You say reground cams wear the engine much quicker. what actually wears out? is it just the top end?
Ive also been told by a company that builds up a lot of ae86 street cars that all cams will wear the engine quicker, is this anything to be worried about on a rebuilt engine that im in no hurry to rebuild again?
Im aware that you must use a mineral oil when running in components and that you shouldnt let it idle until its worn in, especially with stronger valve springs. However most people dont install the stronger valve springs until the cams are worn in.

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech ... _story.htm[/img]

[B_giB]

doin anything to your engine that increases torque or h/p will make it wear out faster, but that is all dependedant on how u treat the engine

[ChaosAD]

I rang kelford the other day and they didn't know what the h*ll I was on about when I said 'argon built up cams'. However they do do a hard weld cam but they dont use argon. The reason u cant use synthetics with them is because the lobes are so shiny and polished that the synthetics wont cling to them. quoted $ 800 for them and Franklin cam services quoted me
$40 per lobe, im not sure whether either of them included gst. But ive never had a problem with FCS (franklin cam services) and they'll probably give u a deal if u ask them nicely.
I also found out that re-ground cams wont cause an oil pressure drop because the bearing journal is narrower at the bottem anyway

[Blown5k]

aye?i think you mean your not supposed to use synthetic on break in thats what most cam cards say when you get them base circle reduced cams are ok in regaurds to moderate grinds big grinds yes they require built up cams lobes or billets with the bucket under shim arangement heres a curveball i know of a guy that run shim under bucket with std machined down buckets i thought this was really dodgey as the bucket must have been getting thin but it seems to have stood the test of time well on a race application 4age.

[ChaosAD]

I know about not using synthetics when breaking them in, even after break-in you still cannot use synthetics with built up cams cos the lobes on them are so smooth that the synthetics wont cling to them.
You shouldnt use synthetics in a highly stressed engine anyway as they dont provide enough protection.

[Blown5k]

Yeah tell that to most of the racing teams in the world that use the stuff im sure there engines are`nt "highly stressed"

[matt dunn]

Yeah tell that to most of the racing teams in the world that use the stuff im sure there engines are`nt "highly stressed"

You'll quite often find that a car sponsored by an oil company won't actually be running the oil that sponsors them.

A few years back when my dad was servicing on a rally team that had oil sponsorship they had to tip the oil that they wanted to use into the sponsors empty containers to tip it into the car!

[Blown5k]

How is Alan btw

[Disco]

Woah... Digging up old threads...

I don't like reduced base circle cams. They alter (read f**k up ) your valve train geometry. You end up wearing the engine much quicker and have problems with a linea lift.

Again I'm against reground cams in a modern engine. Your right about the bucket being more exposed because of the reduced base circle. You can just imagine the stresses on the bucket when the lobe strikes it!
Your also increasing the weight of your drivetrain by adding bigger shims or increasing the length of your valves.

Is there any way around causing nasty wear on the bucket? I know enough to be dangerous in that part of the engine, never really played with one but I've seen enough of them in bits. <-- managed to answer my own question from this page

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech ... _story.htm

Because the 4AG has a cam lobe on either side of a cam bearing journal, it makes it critical that adequate clearance is given between the lifter (bucket) & shim and the bearing journal surface. The reduction of the cam lobe base circle, without extensive head modifications, requires the use of thicker shims. This will increase valve train reciprocating mass and inertia (adding stress and increasing the potential for major failure). Too thick a shim necessitates radiusing the edge to clear the cam bearing journal, increasing the possibility that the cam lobe will grab the shim and flip it out. An alternative would be to narrow the cam shaft bearing, but this would cause greater wear on the bearing caps and/or increase oil loss (lower oil pressure). Another alternative would be to reduce the bearing journal diameter, but that would require welding up the bearing caps and reboring them

Therefore it is strongly urged that reground cams (Bull Frog, PAECO, etc.) not be used. Use only cams ground from new billet stock, e.g., HKS, TRD, TODA POWER, TOYOTA, etc. My suggestion is that if TRD, i.e., Formula Atlantic engine supplier, or one of the others that have extensive 4A-G racing experience do not do it, then you should be really skeptical that someone else would or does anything different. Regrinding a camshaft only removes material that the 4A-G needs to maintain the base circle the same size as the bearing journal.

What this thread indicates is that if you want your 4AGE to run sweet with a kelford streetfighter grind, it's not quite as simple as out with the old in with the new and dyno for maximum points. Is that the general consensis?

Edit: The above really answers that question too...

You really don't like them Daniel but for your race cars?
For a daily driver is having extra strain on the buckets and stuff in there really going to be a problem? Kelford are reputed to know their stuff, would there really be an issue?

[TygerTung]

If you have a rocker arangment, with adjustable mechanical tappets, does the reground cams cause any problems?