new driving laws :(

[Garreth27]

apart from raising the age, i say they should also put restrictions on what cars you can own/drive. I see lots of young drivers at 16-18 rolling around in turbo'd subies, mitsi's etc and are generally the ones who act like muppets on the road.
I mean the first car i drovearound in was my brothers littlel carby honda civic and lost control of that a few times while taking corners to fast and just general inexperience while driving in the wet. Raise it 18 IMO

[1I1]

As above, it doesn't matter what car you are driving it doesn't take much to get into trouble!

No more new licenses IMO.

TBH though I get more problems with older drivers than young ones. But that's an discussion for another day. Age is only part of the equation.

I don't think this will solve a thing. It starts way before they get behind the wheel. People are just getting more and more stupid as time goes on. Idiocracy (the movie) continues to prove it's correct. Everytime I go out in my car / van I see someone run a red light and / or completely fail to indicate. Will increasing the age fix this? No.

Fail once again.

Fully agree. See drivers 35yo+ doing dumb shit all the time really annoys me. The same people who were driving since they were 15!

ie last week a guy in his late 40s was in the lane next to me driving side by side. The car in front of him indicates left and starts to brake, hes got ample time to slow down but no choses to swerve into my lane at the last second
Thank you the person who invented the horn

[xsspeed]

Raise it 18 IMO

What's that going to do though in reality?

All the current age raise from 15 to 16 means, is that for the next year there will be less inexperienced drivers on the road, until they hit 16, then the same numbers of learner drivers will sit their learners tests.

In the end you end up with the same number of learner drivers, and tbh maturity levels (if thats the reason for the age increase) do not increase that much from 15 to 16, if at all.

Will raising it to 18 be any different?

IMO more would be achieved through a proper driving programme, ie what to do in certain situations, rather than just a theory test that teaches you what signs mean and how to point out potential hazards to your front passengers - should teach people what to do around these hazards.

[solitaire]

If it means the little shitbags have to wait another year before they start doing burnouts all over my little corner of the world i'm all for it,

[tsoob]

I think its a good thing.. im all for older actually.

young kids at 15 are only interested in showing off to their mates and girlfriends.

id be all for 18.. the roads are crowded to hell already.

They are 'at risk' drivers plain and simple:

reduce the risk, reduce the road toll

[rolla_fxgt]

Funny how almost everyone on here is all for raising the age, when most of us are over the age suggested for raising it to.
I bet if someone came out suggesting raising the driving age to 30 or even 40, most of us would be against it.

Age is only a factor, one of many. As others have pointed out, people do dumb shit on the roads every day, and as the stats point out, most crashes involve middle aged people. Its just fatals that involve more younger people.
And we all know that if a middle aged person is involved in a serious crash, its an accident, and no ones sure what caused it, but if its a young person, they were speeding, driving a souped up car, and age was a factor in the crash.
Why? Because blaming middle NZ for problems doesn't sell, and causes people to hate your newspaper/tv network, which is bad for business.

Why not ban driving for those aged over 65? Or for middle aged women going thru menopause, who in my experience concetrate on everything but driving when behind the wheel.

But 16 is a good balanced age in my opinion for beginning to learn to drive. I think if you can vote or join the armed services, you should be able to drive like any other adult in NZ.

[solitaire]

Speaking from experience, my parents wouldn't let me drive untill I was 17, and even then it was too early as I was not mature enough.

I ripped up a diamante on queen st, $10,000 insurance bill
I nearly wiped out a family on tamaki drive if it hadn't been for the superb handling on the levin
I did a 540 degree spin on a motorway onramp due to worn rear tyres, again thanks to the levin for being so forgiving
Clocked up 90 points doing nearly twice the speed limit on the western on several occasions

I just didnt have the maturity, i thought i was bulletproof (as all teenagers do) - thankfully the threat of losing my license slowed me down for two years which gave me a chance to grow up. If i'd had a turbo sw20 back then i would probably be dead.

That being said I have met 16 year olds that are responsible citizens that drive well, but they have been the exception to the rule for me.

Until people start considering the community they inhabit they are too young to drive imo

[fevil]

No more new licenses IMO.

TBH though I get more problems with older drivers than young ones. But that's an discussion for another day. Age is only part of the equation.

But that high lights what the new licensing system is trying to address and you are seeing the results of the early system. Better education and training is required resulting in better drivers.

There was a time when pilots taught themselves but that changed real quick. Its a shame the same thinking was not applied to driving, Hell it would have been fun to have to do the compulsory donut and skid segment, as an example, with out endangering your self and general public.

[xsspeed]

id be all for 18.. the roads are crowded to hell already.

My point is that you are only going to have less drivers (or a lower rate of increase of new drivers) until they all turn 18, then there will just be as many new drivers each day/week/month/year as they will all be turning 18 rather than 16.

I agree that young drivers are higher risk, but thats probably from age 16-25 or so(as a generalisation), so putting the age up one year I think will achieve very little.

There is a 'culture' (as much as I hate using the word like that) of young drivers being muppets, not all of them, but some, and as pointed out above by solitaire there is a lack of care/respect for community/others, problem is I don't think changing the driving age solves this.

[1I1]

There is a 'culture' (as much as I hate using the word like that) of young drivers being muppets, not all of them, but some, and as pointed out above by solitaire there is a lack of care/respect for community/others, problem is I don't think changing the driving age solves this.

And you can't just say because the person is X age they will drive like a muppet on the road. I can remember back when me and my friends started getting licenses - some people who were "quiet good kids" were useless and a bit reckless when driving.

Surely it would be better to keep people driving from 15 and have them supervised for a longer period of time and teach them correctly with decent instructors, not perents who pass on bad habbits

[sergei]

Age is not a problem.

Worst drivers in my opinion are 40yo blond females.
Here is a stereotype for you.
Actually scratch that, I will extend that to "safe driver" category, ie the ones that are considered to be safest: middle aged. They are the worst and most dangerous drivers.

At least in my experience on NZ roads.

Most of near misses that I had to avoid were caused by these oblivious, ignorant and self-centred morons. When you confront them about almost killing you, they go on about how they have 20 years of experience and no way they could be wrong. Then they go on how a foreigner has a nerve to point out their flaws.

Generalisation but still holds some truth.

And yes, I am approaching that age slowly myself.

P.S. Additionally these morons teach their kids how to drive, which obviously is the problem the age restriction tries to solve. Instead of bumping up the age (as the younger you are the better you learn), they should forbid to teach without the instructor licence.

[Malcolm]

P.S. Additionally these morons teach their kids how to drive, which obviously is the problem the age restriction tries to solve. Instead of bumping up the age (as the younger you are the better you learn), they should forbid to teach without the instructor licence.

I agree that this is a big problem in NZ. It means that bad habits, poor driving etiquette etc are passed on from parents (who haven't done a driving test in 20-30 years and probably wouldn't even pass the learner's theory test now).

I actually think that some sort of driving classes should be included in the highschool cirriculum, have a suitably qualified teacher who takes the class through a number of things they need to know in order to be able to drive, and maybe even some practical stuff - infact TBH I think with the level of computing available in schools these days, some sort of driving simulator that tests their knowledge of road rules, give way rules, ability to apply correct etiquette to things like lane choices etc would be quite possible to implement.

[rollaholic]

we just need a better licensing system, better training, and something thats ongoing also.

just today i was waiting at the lights, i could see the set across from me were about to turn red when a van rocketed through the lights. my light goes green while its in the middle of the intersection. once it had passed i start to move and another car takes the corner! some silly tart in her 30s with a carload... i beep the horn, shes going really slow, looks at me like 'what au' and beeps her horn back at me in the same sequence i had done. if i hadnt had to wait for the van, she probably would've T boned me.

brain checks should be required every 5 years or something.

trouble is that kinda stuff costs, and user pays is about as popular tuku morgan in this country

[Mr Revhead]

Yep it's the training that lets NZ down. There is next to no proper driver training.
Road rules are only a part of it. But that's all you need to know to get a license. Insanity.

[Looonie]

Howabout, instead of sitting a testing and being handed the keys, people have to enrol in and pass an on-going course of theoretical and practical lessons?

ie. 6 months of every second weekend at Pukekohe race track doing repeated defensive driving manouvres and basics like safe lane changing etc etc.

Take the teaching out of the hands of the parents (who most are pretty $&#$% useless themselves) and put ownership of the abilities our drivers have back in the hands of the government who are (should be) responsible for the outcome.

And I'm fully for limitations on the type of vehicles permitted for people under the age of 20 to drive, 1.3l carby fwd all the way. No modifications permitted etc etc.

Sounds like I should be an Australian... but it happens when you get old I guess.

Part of growing up is doing dumbshit in cars, but we should be trying to assist with them learning from their mistakes, but in a safe environment with the appropriate precautions.

Completely dreaming here, but wouldn't it be nice if someone who was filthy rich decided to invest in driver education and build a large facility that included a complete roading system and classrooms, so all new drivers could be taught properly, and anyone convicted of a driving offence could have compulsory education as part of their sentence (get them drunk and then see if they can avoid that robotic kid that just walked out in front of them).

Anyway, I'm all for raising the licensing age, I didnt even start driving until I was 18 anyway. And I still did plenty of stupid shit then without realising the consequences, but I sometimes wonder how much worse the youth of today are with how many are dying in their cars, and taking others out with them.

[Mr Revhead]

Prodrive was similar to what you talk about.
But the govt at the time (thanks Uncle Helen) refused to help fund it as they claimed it would promote hooning. Toyota was a long time sponsor.

[AE86less]

Imo 16 is still a bit young, based purely on myself. Within a week of getting my restricted I'd been for a ride in the car (with a mate) and tried my first handbrake slide around a corner on a narrow road with cars parked all the way round the corner. Thinking about that and other things I did in that first year gives me the willies!

I also wonder why there are no mandatory professional lessons. It doesn't have to be cheap to get a licence! Heres something I googled up about driver licencing in Germany:

Learning to drive in Germany is a rather costly process. For the normal license you have to do a mandatory 14 theoretical lessons, 12 practical lessons (4 motorway, 3 night time, 5 country roads), and then however number of actual lessons are required for the actual driving process. Then come extra costs for the test itself and getting the license. In total the costs for learning and getting a license are €1,400 to €2,000.

Note that the lessons as described above really are mandatory. And you must pay an authorised instructor to teach you. Unlike in other countries, such as the UK, it is not legal to take free lessons from a friend or family member.

Here is a breakdown of the average costs:

* Registration & Theory classes: €130-199
* 12 Special lessons (mandatory): €420-495
* Theory Test: €49-66
* Practical Test: €130-160
* KVR application: €45
* TUV exam: €87.81

Those are the items that you must pay. The 12 special lessons involve the normal roads, autobahn, and night driving.

Normal driving lessons range from about €25 to €32. Most first-time learners require 10 to 20 lessons. Although this is obviously different for everyone.

So assuming no outside assistance, and let's say 15 of the normal lessons, the cost is approximately €1500 (but probably more) and about 3 to 4 months before you qualify and get on the road.

[Mr Revhead]

Imo 16 is still a bit young, based purely on myself. Within a week of getting my restricted I'd been for a ride in the car (with a mate) and tried my first handbrake slide around a corner on a narrow road with car parked all the way round the corner. Thinking about that and other things I did in that first year gives me the willies!

I agree! And my first car was a V6 Capri....

[TRD Man]

... refused to help fund it as they claimed it would promote hooning. Toyota was a long time sponsor.

That's not true at all. The Govt at the time were funding other driver training programmes and the MSNZ/Prodrive Trust promoted course simply missed the bus.
Whilst there may well have been some sentiment in respect of the appropriateness of a motorsport promoted safe driving programme, there were greater concerns held over the course credentials.

[Mr Revhead]

really? I'm pretty sure news reports at the time stated they were denied funding due to the main concern of the hooning misconception.
I recall John Osbourne talking about it.