New camber rules for certs

[tsoob]

again this is why we need to do something about this.

Mark explained that if we get no head way with the people at LVV we may have to go to the minster of transport.

This will mean we need a lot of signatures etc.

[strx7]

Yes!, and while we do that we also should rally for authority-like excemption for trackday cars.

Correct me if I am wrong:

No you dont require an authority card, harness, seats a MNZ license etc etc to have a cage in your car.

You CAN have a rollcage in your car if it is CERTIFIED and the cage is to NZDRA/NZHRA spec - but their cages are for drag racing, not much thought of circuit racing physics has gone into to their type of cages.

If you have a car, that you wish to put a cage in, rather than just being an occasional track day thrasher, Join a MNZ club, LEARN about what other events are on that you can compete in, LEARN to drive you car even better, and become a better driver while having alot of fun, and meeting other like minded car/motorsport enthusiasts.

You will then learn why having a cage, seats, harness, MNZ authority card etc is THE RIGHT way to go. at the end of the day,

IF YOU CANT AFFORD ALL THE RIGHT SAFETY GEAR, YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO PLAY!!!

Shane - MNZ Scrutineer & Vice President of Motorsport Bay of Plenty.

[sergei]

Yes!, and while we do that we also should rally for authority-like excemption for trackday cars.

Correct me if I am wrong:

No you dont require an authority card, harness, seats a MNZ license etc etc to have a cage in your car.

You CAN have a rollcage in your car if it is CERTIFIED and the cage is to NZDRA/NZHRA spec - but their cages are for drag racing, not much thought of circuit racing physics has gone into to their type of cages.

If you have a car, that you wish to put a cage in, rather than just being an occasional track day thrasher, Join a MNZ club, LEARN about what other events are on that you can compete in, LEARN to drive you car even better, and become a better driver while having alot of fun, and meeting other like minded car/motorsport enthusiasts.

You will then learn why having a cage, seats, harness, MNZ authority card etc is THE RIGHT way to go. at the end of the day,

IF YOU CANT AFFORD ALL THE RIGHT SAFETY GEAR, YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO PLAY!!!

Shane - MNZ Scrutineer & Vice President of Motorsport Bay of Plenty.

I used to be member of a MNZ club. I know all about events that can happen. I even used to go to monthly club meetings. There was a huge segregation of members. There were "real members" and "newbies". There was no clear communication on the events, website was non-functional, and everything was word of mouth. Felt really unwelcome there. Drinking beer and watching rally videos is not motorsport.

I have taken part in multiple events as service crew and occasionally as passenger before joining this club, I did more events without club than being in the club.

I had to squeeze out information from various senior members of the club on what is required to go racing.

To be fair the club was more oriented towards gravel rally, but there were no events for the beginners.

I want to learn how to drive car properly. In my own time, and in my own budget. Hence track days are great way to do that. At same time I want it to be safe: have a rollcage - car built in '80 is not the safest thing to race about in.

It would be great to allow track days to be type of events that could go in log book.

It seems to me that joining a car club is redundant.
I know a lot of people who compete and rallies and never went to a meeting at their car club. All they do is send a cheque in mail.

[Dell'Orto]

If cop stops you how they are going to measure the camber?

Realistically they wont bother. Unless its wildly obvious then they probably wont even look twice.

[strx7]

Sergei find another car club, you are in auckland, there is over 10 MNZ car clubs in your area.

Which club did you used to belong to? there are certainly active clubs, and non active clubs, other clubs, like ours is VERY PRO ACTIVE. I think Pukekohe car club is probably the most active in your area as far as clubsport events go, and getting infomation out there

[Dell'Orto]

again this is why we need to do something about this.

Mark explained that if we get no head way with the people at LVV we may have to go to the minster of transport.

This will mean we need a lot of signatures etc.

I'm sure we could organise a petition to get couriered around the main centres...get as many forums together and have a mass signing. 10,000 signatures would probably not be a major.

[sergei]

Sergei find another car club, you are in auckland, there is over 10 MNZ car clubs in your area.

Which club did you used to belong to? there are certainly active clubs, and non active clubs, other clubs, like ours is VERY PRO ACTIVE. I think Pukekohe car club is probably the most active in your area as far as clubsport events go, and getting infomation out there

I would rather keep the name of the club to myself, as it could start massive flamewar, and since it has been 5 years ago, it is probably not relevant to that club any more (I checked their website and it improved a lot).


I would rather join a club that has online forum. Driving to Pukekohe for club meets (not racing) from North Shore is taxing, considering that meetings occur about 7pm on Thursday (just guessing here) I just will not be making it in time if I leave work at usual hours and go straight there.

One thing to consider, why there is a need to be a member of car club to get clubsport licence (besides the name)?

[sergei]

again this is why we need to do something about this.

Mark explained that if we get no head way with the people at LVV we may have to go to the minster of transport.

This will mean we need a lot of signatures etc.

I'm sure we could organise a petition to get couriered around the main centres...get as many forums together and have a mass signing. 10,000 signatures would probably not be a major.

Not if we all turn up at the steps of beehive .

[rolla_fxgt]

again this is why we need to do something about this.

Mark explained that if we get no head way with the people at LVV we may have to go to the minster of transport.

This will mean we need a lot of signatures etc.

I'm sure we could organise a petition to get couriered around the main centres...get as many forums together and have a mass signing. 10,000 signatures would probably not be a major.

I have access to a couple of National MP's, and can possibly get access to Simon Bridges (Associate Minister of Transport), if someone wanted to meet with them in person to raise it if it comes to that

[wde_bdy]

Skip the political rubbish and just deal straight with the LVVTA, no one else will care and will simply direct you to them anyway. The biggest problem you have is the retards that caused this problem like to call themselves "car enthusiasts" too and any public event you try to organise will just end up getting you bad press over what is really only a minor technical matter. As a whole the LVVTA process works and is a lot better than many other countries so be very careful trampling all over it. It was a very borderline thing 20 years ago to even be allowed to modify cars at all.

Callum

[fangsport]

Skip the political rubbish and just deal straight with the LVVTA, no one else will care and will simply direct you to them anyway. The biggest problem you have is the retards that caused this problem like to call themselves "car enthusiasts" too and any public event you try to organise will just end up getting you bad press over what is really only a minor technical matter. As a whole the LVVTA process works and is a lot better than many other countries so be very careful trampling all over it. It was a very borderline thing 20 years ago to even be allowed to modify cars at all.

Callum

finally a logical response to the whole debacle. prior to LVVTA Certs, modified cars could get WOFs with a 'declaration' form. when these were phased out, NZ was close to going down the path of most other countries and allowing only cosmetic mods to normal road going cars (ie, not hot rods or motorsport vehicles). NZ has the most relaxed modification rules in the world, and people still see fit to complain when they are tightened up.

2 simple ways of getting legal:
Modify within LVVTA guidelines and get it certed;
Modify within MSNZ guidelines and get an Authority card.

bitching and moaning because you want to modify your car to completely deminish any remaining steering/suspension geometry, is completely retatded, as is the modification.

am i crying that my TE71 will have to have Std struts re-fitted and 0 camber........... no, because next time it needs a WOF i will merely have to fill out a few extra columns in the MSNZ Authority form and pay the money .

[wde_bdy]

finally a logical response to the whole debacle. prior to LVVTA Certs, modified cars could get WOFs with a 'declaration' form. when these were phased out, NZ was close to going down the path of most other countries and allowing only cosmetic mods to normal road going cars (ie, not hot rods or motorsport vehicles).

Not quite, declaration certs were only a transitional thing for previously legally modified cars when the new LVVTA cert framework came in. If your car was modded pre 92 you got it checked and the paperwork issued to allow you to retain the mods you already had, I think it was only a 2 year window to get them issued? NZHRA took a reasonably hard line on this to show how serious they were and don't allow cars under declaration certs into their events.
Prior to that basically you could do anything your WoF guy would let through, there were some pretty shocking mods floating around too.

Callum

[Dell'Orto]

finally a logical response to the whole debacle. prior to LVVTA Certs, modified cars could get WOFs with a 'declaration' form. when these were phased out, NZ was close to going down the path of most other countries and allowing only cosmetic mods to normal road going cars (ie, not hot rods or motorsport vehicles). NZ has the most relaxed modification rules in the world, and people still see fit to complain when they are tightened up.

2 simple ways of getting legal:
Modify within LVVTA guidelines and get it certed;
Modify within MSNZ guidelines and get an Authority card.

bitching and moaning because you want to modify your car to completely deminish any remaining steering/suspension geometry, is completely retatded, as is the modification.

am i crying that my TE71 will have to have Std struts re-fitted and 0 camber........... no, because next time it needs a WOF i will merely have to fill out a few extra columns in the MSNZ Authority form and pay the money .

People are moaning because its a ridiculous ruling...yes there needs to be some form of check, but half a degree is absurd. Why not set it at a blanket maximum of 2 degrees, thats plenty for a road car. What will it lead to next? No welding on the car unless its by a ticketed welder?
One of the things I'd quite like to do (or at least try) is to install independent rear supension to my car, how would that be measured?

[fangsport]

People are moaning because its a ridiculous ruling...yes there needs to be some form of check, but half a degree is absurd. Why not set it at a blanket maximum of 2 degrees, thats plenty for a road car.

true, to a certain degree. the most vocal ones, i suspect, are the "stance" freaks, that want 10degrees, not Joe bloggs that wants only a small increase over the maximum limit.

the average WOF tester isn't gonna bone you over a small increase over factory specs, same goes with a wee bit of stretch.

[RomanV]

IF YOU CANT AFFORD ALL THE RIGHT SAFETY GEAR, YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO PLAY!!!

Shane - MNZ Scrutineer & Vice President of Motorsport Bay of Plenty.

The casual trackday crowd is no doubt a huge source of members to car clubs and full race cars etc later on, yet always seems to be treated dismissively.

Which is why it was a mistake to ask people from racing circles what should be done about road legal cars, because they dont really care as it doesnt affect them... If not just outright dislikes them.

They seem to forget that everyone starts somewhere, and having to jump through a million hoops to have an entry level setup for anything to do with cars, ultimately limits the amount of people willing or able to make the step up to a dedicated race car.

[wde_bdy]

I disagree with the rules they have put in, but seriously for a road car 1 or 1.5 degrees should be plenty. If you have a multi-purpose car that isn't under an authority card it isn't hard to reset your camberplates at the track, probably at the same time you swap over your wheels.

Callum

[sergei]

I disagree with the rules they have put in, but seriously for a road car 1 or 1.5 degrees should be plenty. If you have a multi-purpose car that isn't under an authority card it isn't hard to reset your camberplates at the track, probably at the same time you swap over your wheels.

Callum

The problem with that is when you increase camber, it also increases toe in, which is very difficult to adjust properly on the track. The "solution" is to have toe out on "normal" camber and when you set the camber on the track it brings toe where it supposed to be.

[fangsport]

I disagree with the rules they have put in, but seriously for a road car 1 or 1.5 degrees should be plenty. If you have a multi-purpose car that isn't under an authority card it isn't hard to reset your camberplates at the track, probably at the same time you swap over your wheels.

Callum

The problem with that is when you increase camber, it also increases toe in, which is very difficult to adjust properly on the track. The "solution" is to have toe out on "normal" camber and when you set the camber on the track it brings toe where it supposed to be.

easy enough to be present at wheel alignment, and find out how many turns of adjustment are required to set up on the day.each side uses the same thread pitch, so if it takes 3 1/2 turns each side, then so beit. just remember to reset at end of trackday.