1981 Lada 1600cc Rally Car 190hp 8 port

[sergei]

engine do not need replace at 50000. It is like 75000 to 100000

Really? Is that a good thing? How long a 3k would last (comparable engine, and all)? 500,000kms or more?

[Dell'Orto]

Pretty similar milage to early English cars really, completely normal to have to overhaul them at 60,000 miles.
Edit: Regarding Ladas that is, 3K's dont die. Ever.

[bzrspeed]

russian build engines are not known for long life. Never expected to last long time. Plenty more around. Look at anything russian and it has very short service life. Even russian motorbikes designed to last 25000 to 50000 miles before replace.

Still lada good car to modifiy because engine mounts are same from twin cam fiat/lancia turbo engine. Makes it easy.

Toyota 3k i dont know much about sorry but internet says 67hp compared to 107 to 115 of the lada 1600.

[Bling]

1166cc compared to 1600cc isn't too fair though. They can pretty much run on limited if any water / oil too

[bzrspeed]

oh sorry didnt know only 1166cc.

You give me 12000euro and i give you race car with no issue. Cost of 2nd hand camry or bzr coupe and you can have rally ready car. Did you see port photos? It is full rally engine, how much to make a toyota corolla with a k series engine perform the same? More then 12000euro?
We also built lot of skoda 120l which was rear engine and rear wheel drive like 911 (car not united states of america emergency phone)

you dont like lada sergi but look at photos. Lada can be very good and win lots. Very easy to work on and modifiy.

[dnalunchie]

oh sorry didnt know only 1166cc.

You give me 12000euro and i give you race car with no issue. Cost of 2nd hand camry or bzr coupe and you can have rally ready car. Did you see port photos? It is full rally engine, how much to make a toyota corolla with a k series engine perform the same? More then 12000euro?
We also built lot of skoda 120l which was rear engine and rear wheel drive like 911 (car not united states of america emergency phone)

you dont like lada sergi but look at photos. Lada can be very good and win lots. Very easy to work on and modifiy.

what about the honda b16 engine, Type R civic, factory 185 HP with no modification

[Lloyd]

Or if you want to stick with Honda, last S2000 engine that popped up for sale I saw was engine, box and loom etc for $6000 (3000 euro?).

Should be able to build a competitive 5K or 2T-G in a Starlet for a fraction of 12000 euro.

In saying that, what you're doing on the original pics is a mighty fine job




Oh, and rear engined doesn't mean its good. Corvair, beetle etc?

[Dell'Orto]

Apples with apples though, neither of those Honda motors were designed in the 60's

[Lloyd]

Very true, but if you has $20,000 to throw at a K or T engine...

[bzrspeed]

Very true, but if you has $20,000 to throw at a K or T engine...

The engine is only $2500 of the total cost. We replace most parts of car. New brakes from Drum to 4 caliper piston disc brake. New Differential. new fuel lines. Seam wield entire car. Build and install a WRC spec roll cage. To do the same for a Toyota Corolla will cost just as much if not more.
We are lucky most of the parts are factory production so keeps cost down.

Example of cams you can buy from Lada for road going Lada Riva:

Unit Standard 2101 21213/21214 113 114 118 119
Valve lift, Inlet [mm] 9,5 10,7 11,3 11,4 11,8 11,9
Valve lift, Exhaust[mm] 9,5 9,5 10,2 10,2 11,3 11,3
Open duration, Inlet [degrees] 265 283 244 248 260 263
Open duration, Exhaust [degrees] 265 265 234 236 246 250
Centerline, Inlet [degrees] 102,5 111,5 100 100 106 106
Centerline, Exhaust [degrees] 102,5 102, 103 103 108 108
Overlap [mm] 0,8 0,8 1,2 1,2 1,3 1,3
Base diameter [mm] 30,0 30,0 29,0 29,0 28,5 28,5

Did you know the Tolyatti plant (named after Palmiro Togliatti, a leader of the Italian Communist Party) was built it was the largest car factory in the world. The whole factory take up 600 acre with 400 buildings and has over 300km of assembly line. Also it was the only factory where virtually 100% of the car was made in the same factory.

In late '70s and early '80s AvtoVaz (LADA) produced a 115/140hp non turbo and 260/275 hp turbo Wankel rotary engine that is very similar in format to the Mazda rotary but much more unreliable. It was fitted to various VAZ and GAZ cars, but was fitted to the Riva 2105

[rollaholic]

very similar in format to the Mazda rotary but much more unreliable.

now thats an achievement (cue five pages of rotor wars)

[TRD Man]

An interesting topic. Let's face it, Sergi's correct. Lada's of the 80's era were crap ... even when new.
I sold a few off the yard. I remember wholesaling a 2107 to a Lada agent from Timaru who was in Wgtn for the Lada dealers annual conference.
He couldn't believe his luck (neither could I) and cancelled his flights (much to his wife's disgust), booked a ferry crossing and drove the thing out the gate. About 3 years old with 15000 kilometres on the clock and actually looking quite tidy. The 2107 was the upmarket version. It had a little switch cluster below the gear lever which would fall out whenever you selected 2nd or 4th gear. The drivers window was stuck about a quarter open and wouldn't move. The boot lock wouldn't engage properly and as soon as the car moved the bootlid would spring open. The car was overheating and there was smoke billowing out the back.
None of which phased the guy and so we tied the bootlid down with welding wire, gave him a couple of gallon bottles of water and sent him on his way with his hoity toity missus, dressed to the nines, glaring at me from the front seat.
If we got the good ones, I'd hate to see the domestic versions.

Anyway, the rally car operation looks nice. Brings back a few memories. I'm not sure that Lada left any 2105's here after '85 or whether Andre's car in '86 was factory or home built. Certainly his Samara in '93 was the real deal. Didn't go any good though. In fact often didn't go at all. Artemenko's results were down to his skill as a driver, not the car. We could, and did, see the Samara off in a 2E EP70.

As for the 190hp. Who said Datsun 1600 would make that? Not very likely. Nor is it that a single cam 8 valve Lada would. In fact no factory team of the era running 1600cc ever claimed that power, the closest being Toyota with a claim of 185hp from their 151E purpose built 16 valve injected race motor (and we all know what bullshitters the Japs were).

Nevertheless, advances in technology (and a nice bit of downporting) may have brought better results. Good luck with it. I'd be interested to know where the $25K Lada rally car is & whose it was.

[fangsport]

thanks Bruce. case closed. thread dead, unless we get to perve at more cool Ladas in action, instead of slagging them off ??

[bzrspeed]

the car is still racing in the 2012 hungry rally championship.
We built mant vfts cars.

This topic was just to show you what i used to do as i was proud of my former work. Not meant to debate if lada was good or not good.

The vfts cars all make 190hp from 98 onwards, before that was 165hp.

[Lloyd]

Any more pics? We're genuinely interested in the builds, but I think you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that a Lada is a good car in base form.

Modified cars on the other hand...

[bzrspeed]

not of that lada sorry. Maybe a few of lada parts but that is all i have of building that one.
I have many of lancia delta and fiat powered lada and fiat 124/5 and 131.

[TRD Man]

Hmmmm http://www.groupbrally.com/lada.shtml .... also here in this current advertisement
http://www.rally24.com/rally-cars-for-s ... -3716.html

[bzrspeed]

Group B lada is fun.
Lots of VFTS cars for sale. VFTS is a race classification much like super 1600cc in WRC.

That car is a bit expensive. New built 12,000 to 15,000 euro.

[RS13]

As for the 190hp. Who said Datsun 1600 would make that? Not very likely. Nor is it that a single cam 8 valve Lada would. In fact no factory team of the era running 1600cc ever claimed that power, the closest being Toyota with a claim of 185hp from their 151E purpose built 16 valve injected race motor (and we all know what bullshitters the Japs were)

I did, although now researching further into it I may have confused the L16 with the LZ16 race engine, which makes closer to 200hp. I stand corrected!

[ke70_83_dx]