Are Japanese cars soul-less?

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Are Japanese cars soul-less?

Postby iOnic » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:16 pm

Not sure if any of you read JC's books. Or even listen to the dribble he emits :lol: But I really liked this bit out of one of his books so thought some of you might like a read. The actual article is about Rolls Royce but the first section got me thinking a bit about the cars we all love and why. Thoughts?

As I write, a car is sitting outside my window, waiting to be tested. I do not know where it is made or what it is called. I think it might be a Kia but it could be a Daewoo. Whatever it is, you would find more character in a glass of water and more heart in an office rubber plant. And there's a very good reason for this.

In order for a car to have personality, an X factor, the company that makes it must be able to take guidance and inspiration from one man, the man who started the company in the first place. This did not happen with the car outside my window, which is undoubtedly built in a jungle clearing by a company that makes cars to make money. No one began Proton or Hyundai or Daewoo because they'd harboured a dream of making something extraordinary or special. These are just enormous engineering and construction conglomerates that have been told by their respective governments to make cars so that the locals can get off their oxen and get modern.

We see the same sort of thing in Japan. There never was a Mr Toyota who, since he was a small boy, yearned for the day when he could build a small family hatchback that never broke down. And you can scour your history books until the sky turns green but you'll not find any mention of a young Timmy Datsun who stayed up until ten o'clock, even on school nights, devising his plan for a car with two milometers.

Subarus are made by a romantic sounding outfit called Fuji Heavy Industries. At night I bet the chairman sometimes forgets he has a car division. It'll just be another entry in his plofit and ross accounts.

The only Japanese cars with even a trace of humanity are Hondas, and there's a very good reason for that. There was a Mr Honda and he did have a vision when he was a small boy. Even today that vision still steers the engineers, and as a result there's a very definite correlation between the S2000 sports car and those early motorbikes. It's solely because of this link with the past that I like Hondas more than any other Japanese cars

Of course, in Europe most car firms were started by a visionary. Lotus was kick started by Colin Chapman, who liked things light and frothy. Jaguar was the brainchild of Sir William Lyons, who liked comfort and speed, with low, low price. Enzo Ferrari wanted to make cars solely to support his beloved race team.

Most of these guys, and others like them, are remembered by sound-bite quotes. Ettore Bugatti for instance, once said, 'Nothing is too beautiful or too expensive.' Enzo Ferarri came up with 'the customer is not always right'. And Colin Chapman summed up his philosophy thus: 'Simplify and add lightness.'

Mind you, he also said, 'You would never catch me driving a race car that I have built.' Which probably explains why Lotus came to be known as an acronym for Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.

These men are all now dead, or in South America, but their DNA is still evident in the cars that are being made today. The Lotus Exige is light and breaks down a lot. The new Bugatti Veyron will be astoundingly expensive and I think the paddle-shift gearbox in a Ferarri 575 is silly. But what do I know.

Unfortunately, however, time does have a nasty habit of blurring the idealism that gave rise to these companies. I'm not sure, for instance, that Herr Porsche would get much of a hard-on for the Cayenne. And how would William Lyons react, I wonder, if he knew Jaguar's current board was chasing euros by offering a front-wheel drive, diesel-powered estate car? Sure, it may help Jaguar out of a small hole now, but by losing sight of the goal, the vision, it will drive them into a bigger one later. I grew up, for instance, wanting an E-Type. But my son is not growing up yearning for the day when he can buy an X-type diesel.
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Postby Lloyd » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:11 pm

Sounds like your typical patriotic *insert country here*men.

You could say the same of a Rover 216, Vauxhall anything, Metros, Austins etc etc

And conversely you can look at the likes of S2000 (mentioned), 240Z, Supras, RA28s, etc etc.




Why didn't he mention Lada?
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Postby rollaholic » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:17 pm

since a soul is pretty much a made up thing, it can be ascribed to anything you like.

for my money, soul becomes invested in objects by people. as a consequence it tends to be said about things that have history or meaning. they won races, or someone made a sweet cartoon about them.

so yes, japanese cars can have soul, like lloyd said. its in the eye of the beholder is all.
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Postby Leon » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:18 pm

Well, there's no measurement of soul.

However, my race car (AE92 Corolla) is packed full of soul, character and quirk. My AW11's have had personality written all over them. Even my current appliance car (AE110) Sprinter I think has a personality.

Therefore conclusively proving that I'm a freak.

However, with all Clarksonisms, they're written to be entertainment, rather than science 8)
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Postby phoenix » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:48 pm

To me, when talking about cars, 'character' and 'soul' are just different ways of saying that stuff doesn't always work properly. Eg; yeah it starts sweet but you've gotta pump the gas pedal twice and beep the horn while turning the key.

Engineers are obviously working to design things that always work, all of the time. Historically, the Japanese seem to be better at this than Europeans, although these days 'world cars' and the ownership structures of the big players mean this is becoming less relevant.

Toyota tried to add soul through the use of fly by wire and making cars that accelerate by themselves - they just ended up with lawsuits and recalls. :lol:
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Postby Al » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:16 pm

The most entertaining car I ever owned was my Alfa Romeo. It sounded lovely, handled somewhat well, looked quirky oh did I mention how glorious it sounded? With the twin side draught dellortos winding the 1750 twin cam to its redline in every gear?

Sure the warning lights were flashing all the time, you either had no brake fluid left or the alternator wasn't charging, or if you hit the jackpot, all the lights flash at you like a disco. It wasn't economical, nor was it that reliable, but for the brief moments where everything actually worked, it was amazing.
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Postby rollaholic » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:41 pm

yeah, when people say stuff about horrible cars like 'oh but its got such character!' or w/e i tend to respond with 'yeah but character really means its rusty and unreliable'
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Postby RedMist » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:06 pm

JC's becoming nothing but a curmudegeon. He bitches about soulless cars then bitches about cars that are bitchy. Definately funny, but nonsensical.

My Cerbera which is simply bitchy, pops, farts, overrun, stalls, heavily cammed, uncomfortable, stupidly fast, idiotic lack of grip and no electronic control/safety. . He raved over in 1996, but stomped on the more modern Tuscan in 2004 for the same reasons he raved over the Cerbera in 96.

You can't say the Cerbera doesn't have character. But I'm sure that if you put JC in one now he'd bitch like the old man he is. And rightly so, he's getting older, he wants something fast but comfortable, something that runs on first crank, something his slow reactions can catch when the back end steps out. He's also got enough money that his personal shopping trolley isn't a Corolla or Daewoo... and as such those cars piss him off as well.
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Postby snwtoy » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:29 pm

I thought JC was a fictional character who wrote the bible? 8) If I had known there was car commentary in the bible, I might have read a bit more of it...
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Postby solitaire » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:51 pm

All comes down to your perspective i guess.

To me my ae92 has a boatload of character - but that could be because I have been through so much with it/in it.
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Postby Dell'Orto » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:52 pm

RedMist wrote:My Cerbera


You suck, btw
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Postby bzrspeed » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:01 pm

i guess it is reason to like your car. Buy a alfa or lancia and you know if break down but you like it because of this. That gives car character.
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Postby iOnic » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:27 pm

I think most people (certainly everyone on this forum at least) personify their own cars to some extent. It's hard to avoid given the fact that we have history with our cars. I get the feeling that he is talking about cars in general not necessarily specific cars.
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Postby VR-4Squid » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:28 pm

I don't think my vr4 actually had any soul until I started modifying it.

Come to think of it I don't think many of the un modified japanese cars I've driven had much in the way of soul, with the exception of those that were old enough to have started falling apart.

A friends Alfa Sud is by far the most soulful car I have driven.

But then, most Euro stuff doesn't have much soul either. Infact you've got to spend quite abit of money to find one which does (or get an old one, as with jappas).
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Postby dnalunchie » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:21 pm

Little cheap cars have soul. My swift definitely has one, I think it hates me too
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Postby Dell'Orto » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:32 pm

VR-4Squid wrote:I don't think my vr4 actually had any soul until I started modifying it.

Come to think of it I don't think many of the un modified japanese cars I've driven had much in the way of soul, with the exception of those that were old enough to have started falling apart.

A friends Alfa Sud is by far the most soulful car I have driven.

But then, most Euro stuff doesn't have much soul either. Infact you've got to spend quite abit of money to find one which does (or get an old one, as with jappas).


So would that mean that a car in fact inherits soul/personality from its previous owners?
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Postby Quint » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:57 am

Old cars certainly feel to have more soul than cars these days, whether you like them or no, you look at something pre 90s and you watch it trundle by. Maybe it's because we've all been in one, all had memories of that time good or bad, they've left their impressions. Maybe it's simply because jap cars built in the last 20 years have been made for everyone. Like that generic movie, it's okay, did the job, but you quickly forget.
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Postby sergei » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:09 am

Lloyd wrote:Why didn't he mention Lada?


It's bzrspeed's job.
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Postby MAC_HATER » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:23 am

its also about what you grow up around as well

i grew up around holdens and violently supported them till i was 15 or so - then over the next few years and goy my full license, then a while later my first car - i lucked out bigtime thanks to both me and my parents knowing nothing about cars - and inadvertedly bought a AE111 BZG Trueno instead of a 5A-FE FZ Trueno - i still cringe that i nearly bought a shitbox

in any case that BZ-G made a great first impression and ive been in the toyota camp ever since - $&#$% the falcodores :P

im sure if i bought an integra i would be in the honda camp right now - or in the mitsi camp if i bought a FTO or something - first impressions really do count

i also beleive that cars have character and soul - the supra has it and makes it a hoot to even just be around - another friend grew up around quirky GM cars and now owns 2 and a half Pontiac Fiero's - and they certainly have character - one of them even backfired and spat fuel into my face while i was watching the single giant Throttle Body injector for signs of life while my friend was cranking the engine over xD
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Postby solitaire » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:31 am

MAC_HATER wrote:its also about what you grow up around as well
Good point, my dad owned a ke25 for roughly 20 years, we went everywhere in that car (and if I ever find it I will buy it on the spot!). It was incredibly reliable.

Ever since then I have loved toyotas
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