The curious case of the caldina that wouldn't start..

[snwtoy]

Did it actually drop fuel or is the engine start just the coincidence of when it decided to go?

I'm not sure. It may have flooded but I can't think why? Would a single dodgy coil or connection to coil prevent it from starting? It doesn't event splutter when it's turning over though.


When it does start normally, it starts on the second crank every time.

One other thing that was pointed out to me today, was that the battery has an indicator thing in it that has red/yellow/green - it's currently red indicating it requires charge. If it was the battery causing the issue though, when I connected the jumpers this afternoon i would have expected it to start, and it didn't. Perhaps it was already flooded by that point. HMMMMMM.

It does crank really hard when it's trying to start. Here's a question.

the reduction starters are soo good that they will wind over fine and sound like there is no problem but the actual voltage under cranking is not enough to run the ECU.

When you say it sounds like there's no problem, for a car with battery issues how long would you expect it to crank for before going flat enough it loses the ability to turn over

[Mr Revhead]

Are they OBD2?
viewtopic.php?t=80912

[Lloyd]

Depends on the car, VWs can get a bit picky on battery voltage too. They'll crank for ages happily and just not fire.

Easiest way to think about it: If your engine computer needs at least 11V to fire injectors/coil, but your starter motor needs at minimum or 8V to turn over, then a dodgy battery that can still supply enough starter current but only at 9 or 10V is going to mean the engine cranks but doesn't start.

If the battery is old or getting tired then I'd be starting there to rule it out at least. Either that or determine if it's fuel or spark or both missing when it plays up (not the easiest, I know). If you have a cam/crank sensor code in then it'll be doing what you've got at the moment, but without testing what factor is missing it isn't something you can really diagnose over the internet.

[snwtoy]

Are they OBD2?
viewtopic.php?t=80912

They are not OBD2, although the connector is that shape. I do have fivebob's diagrams already, cheers. It has the codes but doesn't say how to get the codes. From memory you need to short a couple of pins in the connector and then turn the ign on, but which pins I can't remember.

[Mr Revhead]

Te1 and e1

[snwtoy]

Ok, so I bridged pins 4 and 13 in the obd connector, then turned the ign to on.

The check engine light and the airbag light flashed constantly.

The ABS light flashed: Flash, short pause, Flash, long pause, Flash, short pause, Flash, long pause etc

I'm trying to work out what that means with fivebob's pdf file, but struggling a bit

[snwtoy]

Ok, so a bit more googling and studying reveals that if the CEL flashes constantly then there's no engine errors detected.

The ABS light flashing 1 1 means Open in ABS and TRC solenoid relay due to a voltage not being between 10 and 14.

Meh.

[Mr Revhead]

Try starting it with terminals bridged

[fivebob]

Are they OBD2?
viewtopic.php?t=80912

Yes, no and maybe.

Yes in that apparently they do have OBD-II capabilities, hence the PXXXX codes in the diagnostics, but they're not easily accessible without the right scan tool. Hence the no (for most users), and maybe if you can afford the $4900+GST price tag.

I suspect a slightly obscure proprietary version of one of the accepted CAN protocols, so you'd need to monitor the CAN bus and decode the data to work out the protocol.

[snwtoy]

Wouldn't start with the terminals bridged, disconnected the battery for 45 mins and tried again, no luck.

Got the mrs to listen to the fuel pump as I cranked it, couldn't hear anything ( whereas she could last time just before I was able to jump start it).

Should I try bridging the fuel pump relay? I'll see if I can work out which connectors do that

[Rob]

Have you tried testing continuity on all the conductors going to your coils? 215's shouldn't do it but 185's are terrible for cables breaking down I've found.

Also check your fuel pump resistor is plugged in still.

While youer at it, can you tell me the size of the alternator belt on your car as I need to get one

Cheers

[snwtoy]

Have you tried testing continuity on all the conductors going to your coils? 215's shouldn't do it but 185's are terrible for cables breaking down I've found.

No, I will need to get myself a voltmeter .. both of mine are kaput.

Also check your fuel pump resistor is plugged in still.

where can I find this?

While youer at it, can you tell me the size of the alternator belt on your car as I need to get one

Cheers

Hmm I walked into Supercheap and there it was on the shelf heh. Although, it could have done with being an inch longer, I had to wind the crank to get it on. There's a boatload of adjustment if the belt were a bit longer.

[xsspeed]

I unplugged the coils and turned it over till I had oil flowing through the turbo oil return.

because the ecu was still reading the crank and cam sensor while you cranked it over it would have fired the injectors for the amount of cranking you did. Pull the coil packs out, pull the spark plugs, unplug the injectors, crank it a little to dry it out, put the plugs back in, connect injectors and coils and you should be away laughing.

did you do this? possibly doesnt explain intermittant run and fail.
re preventing fuel leak because its a pressurised system it will leak out, one thing i got from a haynes manual was to pull up rear seat and unplug fuel pump then crank til it uses the fuel in the lines. system is now depressurised and you wont get so much gas pissing out. i guess doing this there us a potential for detonation as it leans off not sure how real this risk is though. Worked fine when I did it on my mrs' gt caldina, but i dont bother when doing my ae82, there seems to be less gas or less pressure on that that leaks out.

[allencr]

Bad wire connector/terminal that's working intermittently.
Unless you figure out whether it's in the fuel or ignition system, you'll have to check EVERYTHING in both, that's every wire, terminal and connector for every plug and every sensor. The tester/multi-meter doesn't do a god job at this because the ohms and/or voltage test doesn't put a real load thru it, and you'll go crazy testing it forever because testing changes its position compared to its normal state.
Look at every thing for cleanliness corrosion & tension so the male to female terminals make good solid contact.
Hope it starts up again so you can just pull twist tug & jerk at every connector till it fails.
Good luck.

[Rob]

The fuel pump resistor will either be on the firewall or close to the left hand strut tower. The wire colours are blue/black, and blue/red.

[snwtoy]

Well, bypassing the fuel relay didn't help. Pump was getting power but not working.

Mechanic took it out and put it on his bench - was only running intermittently!

New pump installed. Has started every time for the past two days.

What a mother f*cker.

[Mr Revhead]

Oh check the fuel pump



Internet diagnosis is hard!

[Bling]

Oh check the fuel pump

Yeah certainly the first thing i'd check.



Must be happy to have it sorted though!

[snwtoy]

All good, yeah very happy (well the wife is the happiest lol).

Really appreciate your guys help with this, I've learned heaps as bro.

Nah, seriously, you fellas have been awesome.

[macabre]

Was reading through this just now, first thing I thought of when you said it was firing up on the engine start was that the fuel pump was stuffed, but hey I drive old mitsis so its a common problem for me!