Schedule A and fuel lines?

[Adoom]

I've just had a thought...
Now that my water injection is just running straight E85...
I'm replacing the original tank with a fuel resistant one and relocating it inside the box with the surge tank.
But all the lines are nylon, and run inside the cabin.
As far as I can find out, ethanol/alcohol/fuel has no effect on nylon tubing.
And the pump is in the cabin...
All of the fittings on the tank, pump and jet are for nylon tubing.

What is Mr Scrutineer going to say about all that when I next go to a track day?

[Leon]

(h) Where fuel lines pass through the cockpit metal tubing or hose with an outer steel
braiding shall be used and any joins in the fuel line shall be made with industry
quality threaded connectors.

[Adoom]

(h) Where fuel lines pass through the cockpit metal tubing or hose with an outer steel
braiding shall be used and any joins in the fuel line shall be made with industry
quality threaded connectors.

"h"??. What page is that on?

I just read.

(a) Fuel and brake lines shall be appropriately rated, be metal (pure copper tube is not authorised) or have a metal outer braiding and all joins shall be of a threaded or crimped industry quality type

Ah, right, I found it, page 23.

I'll just move the pump and tank into the box with the surge tank. And run the lines under the car.

Can I use the nylon lines under the car?

(g) Fuel shall only be carried in suitable tubing / hose

What is "suitable tubing"?

[Leon]

You can run fuel safe (unbraided) lines outside the cabin. It's up to you to establish if your line is fuel safe really, because when we're scrutineering the car we're using Mk 1 Eyeball method only.

[Adoom]

You can run fuel safe (unbraided) lines outside the cabin. It's up to you to establish if your line is fuel safe really, because when we're scrutineering the car we're using Mk 1 Eyeball method only.

Sweet as.

[85AW20v]

Depends on how safe you'll feel with E85 spraying all over a hot exhaust from your pressurised water/E85 injection system if it breaks.....

Wouldn't be hard to run it through a metal tube would it? Old fuel or brake line or something like that.

[Adoom]

Depends on how safe you'll feel with E85 spraying all over a hot exhaust from your pressurised water/E85 injection system if it breaks.....

Wouldn't be hard to run it through a metal tube would it? Old fuel or brake line or something like that.

The pressurised side of the system runs through a tiny nylon pipe, it's maybe 2-2.5mm inside diameter. It's meant to be good for over 12Bar!

[sergei]

Depends on how safe you'll feel with E85 spraying all over a hot exhaust from your pressurised water/E85 injection system if it breaks.....

Wouldn't be hard to run it through a metal tube would it? Old fuel or brake line or something like that.

The pressurised side of the system runs through a tiny nylon pipe, it's maybe 2-2.5mm inside diameter. It's meant to be good for over 12Bar!

but not over 220'C where it melts .

[Adoom]

Depends on how safe you'll feel with E85 spraying all over a hot exhaust from your pressurised water/E85 injection system if it breaks.....

Wouldn't be hard to run it through a metal tube would it? Old fuel or brake line or something like that.

The pressurised side of the system runs through a tiny nylon pipe, it's maybe 2-2.5mm inside diameter. It's meant to be good for over 12Bar!

but not over 220'C where it melts .

It runs well clear of the exhaust. At no point is there line of sight between the two.

[steroidcontaskie]

I have installed a water/alchol injection system and am just thinking about what to run though it.

I was just wondering why you have switched to pure E85, and why run ethanol vs methanol?

[Adoom]

I have installed a water/alchol injection system and am just thinking about what to run though it.

I was just wondering why you have switched to pure E85, and why run ethanol vs methanol?

It was on the dyno. Pure water wasn't really doing anything other than cooling the charge. Any power benefits could be replicated by adjusting other things.

why run ethanol vs methanol?

They happened to have some E85 that had just been drained out of a surge tank. So they just chucked the E85 in there to see if it made any difference. And it did.
With the WI spraying, the intake temp drops right down to 9degrees!
On the low boost setting it gained 7.5kw just because more ignition advance could be run.
But on high boost(the original reason for the car to be there) the spark kept getting blown out because the coil is old and bung. So need to wait till new coil arrives on Tuesday.

I'm not sure if my wallet will stretch to experimenting with a mix of water/ethanol.... But I will bring it up when I'm next there.
I realise there are other benefits to the water. It apparently keeps the combustion chamber/valves/ports etc clean. Water is supposed to be better at reducing the in-cylinder temperature. Ethanol is better at reducing the intake air temp.

[steroidcontaskie]

Yea that is my understanding too, I from what I have read 50/50 is the sweet spot and methanol is better than ethanol for intake charge cooling, but I am all theory and no practical experience. If the Dyno is tell you good things then you should stick to it.

Cheers
Edward

[matt dunn]

FWIW,

MSNZ rules says no methanol injection allowed,

also actually bans water injection too,

but if your not heading near a track then it's fine.

I had not actually considered running E85 through mine.

hmmm...

[Adoom]

FWIW,

MSNZ rules says no methanol injection allowed,

also actually bans water injection too,

but if your not heading near a track then it's fine.

I had not actually considered running E85 through mine.

hmmm...

I was not aware of that..

Where does it say that?

I only do clubsport stuff, I've been to at least 2 MSNZ events and the scrutineers have seen the WI but only made sure the tank was secure.

[Grrrrrrr!]

I would guess that Matt is refering to
sched A, 3.9 (1) and (5)

[Adoom]

I would guess that Matt is refering to
sched A, 3.9 (1) and (5)

That doesn't look like it says I can't use water/ethanol injection.
Maybe if I was using Methanol, which isn't an approved fuel.
E85 is an approved fuel.
3.9, (2), (b)
"Commercially available petrol/ethanol blended fuels produced in New Zealand up
to E85"

Water injection is specifically mentioned in Schedule F, 2.8, (ii)
But that's only for Formula Ford.

[matt dunn]

Yeah,

I am technically a licenced scruitineer,
and have asked a few times at the courses as we have quite a debate about fuel in our class,

and always get the same answer,

only thing allowed to enter the engine is an approved fuel and air,
and water is not an approved fuel.

[rolla_fxgt]

Yeah,

I am technically a licenced scruitineer,
and have asked a few times at the courses as we have quite a debate about fuel in our class,

and always get the same answer,

only thing allowed to enter the engine is an approved fuel and air,
and water is not an approved fuel.

Wouldnt that rule out the use of oil to lubricate the engine, as its not an approved fuel?
Might be a dumb question, but thought I'd put it out there.

[Grrrrrrr!]

And your blend of E85 and petrol isn't a "commercially avaiable blend" either.

If you are just out to have fun on the track and aren't up in the top end of the field/class it might not be an issue, but if you enter anything where points/prizes are at stake somebody will bitch and moan sooner or later.

[Adoom]

...and water is not an approved fuel.

Seems a bit weird... Air is full of water.

I guess I will just run straight E85 then. Because = approved fuel.

But how would anyone tell if it is straight E85, or if it's mixed with water?

But then E85 absorbs water over time....
I wouldn't be using the WI often, so it's likely going to have absorbed water anyway. I would unintentionally be breaking the rules!!