Distributor timing problem

[steroidcontaskie]

Hi all

I have a issue with my current 2jzge turbo build. I checked the timing of the engine and it was about 30 degrees BTDC. I adjusted it the most I could, but the distibutor cap hits the turbo when it is 17 degrees BTDC, so that is my limit of adjustment (factory is 10 BTDC).

Engine idles at 700 rpm, and is fine if the A/F is between 9-12.5 but if I lean it out to 14 or so, it gets a miss about every 5s. Vacuum is 22mmhg.

I have 2 questions,

1. Would it be ok to put a 7 degree timing retard across the entire rev range using my piggy back ECU to make up for the 7 degrees too adavanced the timing is on the distributor?

2. Would the timing being too far advanced be a potential cause of the engine miss?

Was thinking I could try the 7 degree retard and then see if it fixes it, if that fails, try new spark plugs.

Cheers
Edward

[sergei]

Hi all

I have a issue with my current 2jzge turbo build. I checked the timing of the engine and it was about 30 degrees BTDC. I adjusted it the most I could, but the distibutor cap hits the turbo when it is 17 degrees BTDC, so that is my limit of adjustment (factory is 10 BTDC).

Engine idles at 700 rpm, and is fine if the A/F is between 9-12.5 but if I lean it out to 14 or so, it gets a miss about every 5s. Vacuum is 22mmhg.

I have 2 questions,

1. Would it be ok to put a 7 degree timing retard across the entire rev range using my piggy back ECU to make up for the 7 degrees too adavanced the timing is on the distributor?

2. Would the timing being too far advanced be a potential cause of the engine miss?

Was thinking I could try the 7 degree retard and then see if it fixes it, if that fails, try new spark plugs.

Cheers
Edward

Simple question: did you jumper the E1 to T1 on diagnostics connector (put it in diagnostics mode), before you adjusted the timing? As without jumper it will run ~15-17' at idle.
Sparkplugs will not have an effect on timing.
Idle mixture being rich is very normal. Check the mixture at ~2000rpm. A single miss every 5s isn't too bad either (ECU constantly adjusts the mixture and timing).

[steroidcontaskie]

Thanks for the reply,

yes I did put the car into diagnostic mode, the engine light was blinkng while I was checking the timing. Was a steady blink so I think there were no error codes.

The car isnt dyno tuned, ECU has a base tune I got from a guy with a very similar set up as me. When I took it up engine up to 3000RPM in neutral it started to lean out upto 14.5. Havent driven the car since the piggy back install.

What A/F should I be aiming for a Idle?


Cheers
Edward

[Mr Ree]

You want as close to 14.7 as possible at idle.

Are you certain you didnt stab the dissy one tooth to far when it was put back in?

[steroidcontaskie]

Hi

No I am not sure about that, I marked it the first time I took the dizzy out, but the second time one of my friends did it and I dont think it was marked.

I will have a look into that, Cheers Dude.

[sergei]

One thing to worry about is if you offset the timing electronically, you might run out of rotor (ie it will be too far from the point in the distributor).

[steroidcontaskie]

The timing is electronically adjusted. If I adjust the timing and run out of distriubutor, will that cause my engine damage? Or will I lose combustion and stall out?

I guess I mean is it ok to try electronically adjusting the timing with my piggy back and see what happens?

Thanks again everyone
Edward

[Mr Ree]

Take the dissy back out, turn the engine over to TDC, ensuring the cam gear marks line up with the notches on the metal backing panel, then re-stab the dissy carefully, making sure the rotor is facing #1 pickup.

Then bridge E1 and TE1 and set it to 10btdc.

Its pretty easy to get them a tooth out so dont stress too much.

[steroidcontaskie]

Cheers Dude, I will do that this evening.

When my car is finally do I am going to have to do a NZ wide beer run to say thanks for all the help toyspeed people have given me.

Thanks
Edward

[jr007]

A little off-topic, but you may want ot amend your sig. 80rwhp isn't THAT hot...

[steroidcontaskie]

If you knew how bad I am at working on cars you would think that 80 rwhp is on the upper side of current estimates

Update: I have the timing set correctly now at 10 degrees BTDC and had a look at the distrubutor etc.
The car is missing on cylinder 6, if I put a timing gun on it the induction is erractic. All the other cylinders are ok and changing the leads around doesnt help. If I let the car run very rich, the miss goes away and the induction on the HT lead comes back.

I am going to get a new rotor and some plugs and could order some high quality HT leads, but it seems to me that something funny is going on. Any ideas?

Cheers
Edward

[Mr Ree]

I would inspect the #6 lead for signs of arcing on the cam cover/head, and also, inspect thoroughly for traces of oil in the spark plug valley.

You should replace your cap/rotor/plugs as a matter of course, and if possible, try and get oem ht leads if you need to replace any.

Speak to Mark, Im sure he can give you a sharp price

[steroidcontaskie]

Mark has been really good about giving good deals on stuff, so I will give him an email.

Are the OEM leads better than getting some Magnacore ones? Just asking becuse I have a differnt distrubutor cap so the number 1 lead doesnt so I need 2 number 2 leads and that might mean getting 2 lots of HT leads from toyota. I will ask Mark and see what he says

Cheers
Edward

[Mr Ree]

I would stick to OEM leads, regardless of what other manufacturers claim, but thats just me.

Im guessing you have a 4 runner cap? If so, have you got the version with the locking tabs for the leads to secure to it?

You dont need to buy 2 sets of leads, you just need to simply swap the lead for cylinder #1 for #2 and you can get the reach you will need.

If you find your #6 lead is knackered, you could always just make up a new one locally if a new set if too expensive.

[steroidcontaskie]

It is the 4 runner cap with the clip bits on it. I ill get a qute for the toyota leads, put in some new plugs and change the rotor. See if that helps. Any advice for 2jzge turbo plugs? I have IK22s in at the moment, but all the rich running is fouling them up and I thought I should put some new copper ones in for tuning.

Cheers
Edward

[allencr]

...all the rich running is fouling them up and I thought I should put some new copper ones in for tuning.

Redline 2nd/3rd to get some heat into them, cook off any recent carbon buildup & they should be fine.
There's no such thing as copper spark plugs, only just a bit of copper in them for advertising claims to be true, that's it.

[Mr Ree]

I have been running TRD IK22's since adam was a boy, both in NA and NA-T form. They have been in the car for over 70,000kms to my knowledge and still never misses a beat.

If you are running rich at the mo and keep fouling the iridiums, then buying a set of cheaper plugs might be a good idea until you are well tuned.

Why are you running so rich? I thought you were still running factory ECU and injectors, so should be running factory tune? Do you have any 02 sensors connected?

[steroidcontaskie]

Was running rich when the factory ecu was running the car, but there were no o2 sensors installed and the car still has stock 330cc injectors installed.

I got my friend to install a map ecu 3 and the car idles ok under the basemap they included with the ecu, but it is very rich. My friend leaned it out a bit but it started to miss. I was going to take it to the turners but I wanted to get the miss sorted out before I do that, although it is possible that something funky is happening with the piggyback that they could sort out.

If the car is leaned out past 10:1 cylinder 6 starts to miss and has inconsistant strobing with the timing gun. When it is made a bit richer the strobing returns to normal is the miss goes away. Spark plugs are quite black, from all the rich cold temperature running.

Plan was to replace the spark plugs with some cheaper NGK4464 ones, and the rotor arm too. See if that helps and then maybe take it to the tuners to see what they think.

Cheers
Edward

[Mr Ree]

That makes sense as if the ECU detects no 02 sensors, it puts it into a safer tune which = really rich.

For the record, I dont run any factory 02 sensors, just rely on the WB02 for AFR readings, and it idles at 14.7:1 once its warmed up, cruises at between 15 and 16, and is about 11.5:1 at WOT and full revs.