how universal are ignitors?

[tractionfree]

Hi guys, this question actually directly relates to my mazda, but to be honest I've always found toyspeed to be more clued up (and willing to answer questions) than most other forums, so...

I'm wanting to get away from the stock mazda ignitors as they give problems. I understand that an ignitor is "nothing more than a solid state switch" so, is there anything stopping me from grabbing one of the very plentiful mitsubishi ignitors (for example), and wiring them into my setup with the help of a pinout diagram?

I'm decent with a soldering iron and a circuit diagram, but I don't really know the theory behind it all. So if there's something big that I'm missing, by all means let me know. For example, my ignitors are fed by a 5v signal, I'm only assuming others are the same...

[strx7]

there are intelligent ignitors which control their own dwell time and dumb ignitors which need to be told how long to dwell for.

[sergei]

Dumb ignitors do not care as much as intelligent ones about specs of the coil, ie: for built-in dwell control ignitor they need specific coil (if wrong coil is used there will be either spark strength issue or burning out of the ignitor).

[tractionfree]

hmm, thanks for the replies so far guys

these ignitors are connected to the distributor through some quite "points" looking contacts under the rotor - so i'm guessing theyre dumb ignitors, and the distributor controls the dwell

is that a sure way to know which is which? distributors have dumb ignitors, and coil-on-plug ignitors are smart?

if anyone knows of some plentiful and cheap dumb ignitors, i'd love to hear about them

the car is a 1980 series 1 rx7 btw. the first year of electronic ignition.

[Grrrrrrr!]

is that a sure way to know which is which? distributors have dumb ignitors, and coil-on-plug ignitors are smart?

No. Many ignitors off cars with dizzys are smart igniters. No doubt many COP setups use dumb ignitors.

[tractionfree]

is that a sure way to know which is which? distributors have dumb ignitors, and coil-on-plug ignitors are smart?

No. Many ignitors off cars with dizzys are smart igniters. No doubt many COP setups use dumb ignitors.

hmm, well that makes things trickier. i suppose that means i cant guarantee that mine are dumb ignitors either... how can i tell?

[Crucible]

hmm, thanks for the replies so far guys

these ignitors are connected to the distributor through some quite "points" looking contacts under the rotor - so i'm guessing theyre dumb ignitors, and the distributor controls the dwell

is that a sure way to know which is which? distributors have dumb ignitors, and coil-on-plug ignitors are smart?

if anyone knows of some plentiful and cheap dumb ignitors, i'd love to hear about them

the car is a 1980 series 1 rx7 btw. the first year of electronic ignition.

To the best of my knowledge they are merely a transistor that switches on when they recieve a small base voltage from either a VR, Hall Effect or Optical trigger. Most older ones have four pins. Batt, neg coil, and a + and - for a trigger. Not sure how the dwell varies between ignitors though?

In short they just switch the coil primary on and off to fire coil.

[tractionfree]

some of the big hitters at rx7club.com have apparently woken up, because i'm now getting a deluge of information from them, lol.

turns out the j109 is a "smart" ignitor.. it works out it's own dwell based on acceleration rate and ignition events (i'm copy pasting here), rather than relying on an ECU or something in the distributor to tell it what's going on.. so these ones are a bit more than just a switch. they're reluctor triggered too. which probably means very little to all of us, but hey i learned something today

[Crucible]

What about a link dual channel ignitor? As far as im aware they are compatable with most triggers. Someone may be able to clarify that thou..

[matt dunn]

What you are looking at I believe is a module not an igniter.

Mazda Igniters are almost exactly the same as the Mitsi igniters and are actually really reliable.

Mazda modules are not the same as mitsi ones and do give trouble,
but not a lot really.
How often are yours giving trouble?
Chances are that is being wrecked by heat from the wrong coil used,
or incorrectly applying the heat sink paste to the base.

[tractionfree]

matt: as far as i'm aware, everything in the car is stock. not too sure of the difference between a "module" and an "ignitor" though? i've only ever heard the mazda items being referred to as ignitors though... this is all pre-ECU technology here

i've replaced my distributor coils, leads and plugs, and i'm still having problems. i heard that the ignitors are problematic, and theyre very expensive new, so i started looking around to see if there was an alternative (and opened a can of worms)

[RedMist]

I have exactly what you need. A motec M4, wiring loom 3 x msd boxes, coils and leads.