Toyspeed.org.nz Message Board

by **2jayzgte** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:06 pm

Power isn't the issue its just most people who drive them don't drive them like there supposed to.

by **iOnic** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:08 pm

The huge number of engine swaps/aspiration changes being done worldwide suggests otherwise.

by **thegreatestben** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:17 pm

That's a nice bit of kit and that price is pretty good too. Confused as to whether the stage 2 kit comes with the built-in intercooler as mentioned though.

OMG so shiny! · by **Dell'Orto** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:47 pm

2jayzgte wrote:Power isn't the issue its just most people who drive them don't drive them like there supposed to.

Admittedly it had only done 50ks, but firefly's GT86 only made 96kw - thats less than some blacktop 4AGEs make, and a good hundred kg heavier.

by **Flannelman** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:32 pm

http://the86.co.nz/

Buy online for cheaper than retail and upgrade with what you want. 86RC starts at 34k.

Comes in white, less radio, black bumpers, manual only and 16inch mags. Price goes up by more options you add.

Wonder if they can steal some engines form lexus and have an "engine upgrade - LFA, or IS-F" option? Be amusing owning a car that has the engine worth more than the entire car. And smoke the cars that they belong to as well.

by **rollaholic** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:29 am

iOnic wrote:The huge number of engine swaps/aspiration changes being done worldwide suggests otherwise.

whats popular? turbo boxers?

by **d1 mule** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:03 am

2jz and v8s

also notice no power figures mentioned with those kits...

by **GDII** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:14 am

Dell'Orto wrote:
2jayzgte wrote:Power isn't the issue its just most people who drive them don't drive them like there supposed to.

Admittedly it had only done 50ks, but firefly's GT86 only made 96kw - thats less than some blacktop 4AGEs make, and a good hundred kg heavier.

That's only 20kw more than my 23year old 2litre MR2. Good to see technology is improving.... :roll:

by **fivebob** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:35 am

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/supercharger-frs.php

by **rollaholic** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:55 pm

GDII wrote:
Dell'Orto wrote:
2jayzgte wrote:Power isn't the issue its just most people who drive them don't drive them like there supposed to.

Admittedly it had only done 50ks, but firefly's GT86 only made 96kw - thats less than some blacktop 4AGEs make, and a good hundred kg heavier.

That's only 20kw more than my 23year old 2litre MR2. Good to see technology is improving....

engine tech has improved outta sight since your 3S was made, its just outright power is not often the goal of mass production cars

by **GDII** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:49 pm

Of course an 80s designed engine isn't going to be very good compared to a new direct injection engine. It probably uses way less fuel to get that power. According to the guy at Crawford performance in the USA the new Subaru engine is way stronger and more efficient than the EJ20. The EJ20 is 21 years old.

by **Lloyd** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:55 pm

GDII wrote:The EJ20 is 21 years old.

Closer to 24? ish

OMG so shiny! · by **Dell'Orto** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm

Yeah BC5 RS Legacy started in '89

by **2jayzgte** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:50 pm

How is adding more HP going to help the person driving the car.

Power isn't the be all and end all.

by **RomanV** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:22 am

2jayzgte wrote:How is adding more HP going to help the person driving the car.

My old Toyota can barely put down SFA power without spinning the wheels and it's handling isnt that great so far without a lot more mucking around with the suspension.

So the amount of power it's got, isnt the bottleneck and more power isnt going to help much until I get some other things figured out.

The 86 though is the complete opposite scenario, it's got the handling and grip and everything else to handle a lot more power than it's currently got. So why not?

More power = faster car in nearly every scenario for the 86, it's pretty easy to see the attraction.

by **iOnic** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:34 am

2jayzgte wrote:How is adding more HP going to help the person driving the car.

Power isn't the be all and end all.

Remove your turbos and report back with your new lap times.

by **2jayzgte** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:13 am

I've watched these 86's go round Manfield and saw a variance of times from a 1.23-4 ish the STM car and a 1.25-7ish with some of the others now if your asking me thats pretty darn good sledding for cars without forced induction.

I don't no what alot are expecting here.I think they are a great car for what they are and to me power is the last thing I'd be going for.I'd chuck as much grip as I could at them and if I want to go really harry hardout pull some weight out of them.Either one of the above with a decent driver the times will fall.

by **2jayzgte** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:17 am

iOnic wrote:
2jayzgte wrote:How is adding more HP going to help the person driving the car.

Power isn't the be all and end all.

Remove your turbos and report back with your new lap times.

Hence why I have'nt gone stupid with a big single and what not HP is the last thing I'm looking for.More times than not when people throw more power at most cars one of a few things happen.

The most notable being overpowering the chasiss and the car being to much to handle for most drivers seen that on many occassions on many cars over the years at the track.Hence why alot of people when going high HP go with an AWD type car.

But keep going on about power though cause thats the be all and all.

by **iOnic** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:27 am

More power and too much power aren't the same thing.

The 86 could benefit from a bit more power to make it the total package. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if a turbocharged/supercharged version were to be built by Toyota/Subaru.

We aren't talking about giving them 1000hp. Just a subtle increase to ~200kw. When Andre and I discussed this very issue at Manfeild, he agreed that low to mid 200's would bring the car to life without overpowering it. The 86 and RX8 are exactly in the same boat, perfect handling, chassis and balance but could do with 50-100hp more.

Power isn't the be all and end all, but it is part of the complete package and is the only thing lacking from a car that has everything else (86/rx8)

Just as you said, you haven't gone stupid with power on your car, but it certainly doesn't make factory power so at some point you made the conscious decision to give it a modest increase. How is the 86 any different?

by **2jayzgte** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:39 am

I'd be interested to see how much of a modest increase would do to the chasis and factory setup of the car.

The Supra is a different kettle of fish if it weren't for the factory agreement the Jap car manufacturers had back in the 90s the Supra was a 400 hp car all day from the factory and was designed and engineered to that spec so when you say I increased to that level I like to think Toyota always knew that car had 300+ KW poteintial and engineered the car accordingly.

I get your point though and it is fair but when people think they need to change alot of things to me is a head scratcher as most people will just do it because of what he or she said.

End of the day in most cases the driver runs out of ability before the car does and for me throwing more power at it only will magnify that fact.

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