Lvv cert query

[DexGT]

Havent heard anything but

Im sure it wont be hard if your prepared to just pay the 500 odd dollars

Ka-Ching, Ka-ching....................another group with an idea .......keeping themselves employed..... making the rest of us just though hoops.

I'd just like to point out if these guys hadn't stepped up all those years ago you wouldn't be able to change anything at all on your car which was what the government of the day wanted.
I do agree that once you have a cert you should be able to re cert a mod for a smaller fee.

[1I1]

Re: wheels. You can get them changed on the cert without paying for a full recert.

[AE82 FXGT]

Re: wheels. You can get them changed on the cert without paying for a full recert.

proof?

I don't have a cert but would be looking at getting coilovers, and this thread has made me want to avoid doing anything that requires getting a cert.

[1I1]

Theres a thread on oldschool, a member works as a certifier and I asked. Been meaning to speak to my certifier as I want to add the 15's onto my cert.[/b]

[metric]

Havent heard anything but

Im sure it wont be hard if your prepared to just pay the 500 odd dollars

Ka-Ching, Ka-ching....................another group with an idea .......keeping themselves employed..... making the rest of us just though hoops.

I'd just like to point out if these guys hadn't stepped up all those years ago you wouldn't be able to change anything at all on your car which was what the government of the day wanted.
I do agree that once you have a cert you should be able to re cert a mod for a smaller fee.

I'll give them that but we have gone past the older hot Rodgers keeping an eye on what is practically achievable to the average modifier, to adding blanket rules to cover anything that comes there direction.

Exhaust rules just blanket throw something out there then work out how we are going to achieve it , enforce it ,change it till it works.

Anyone who comes up with the 0.5 degree of camber over standard as a rule is clearly does not have us in mind , can see what they were trying achieve knowing what the trend was at the time but why kill all the fun for us genuine modifiers with a car.

[CAMB01]

I'm definiely all for the smaller fee for adding or changing things that require certing as i'm going to have to do this with the changes my car is going through now after all ready getting a cert early last year.

[e30-323ti]

More importantly though how do get an opinion/say in these rules?
We need to get our shit together rather than being walked over with every new rule and have our say.

Try them one their new FB page.

But would say anyone genuinely interested would be better aligning themselves with one of the ten 'member organisiations' to instigate any real change.

A lot of the current 'rules' that remove the flexibility we are actually trying to enhance in our vehicles, really gets up my nose.

[metric]

More importantly though how do get an opinion/say in these rules?
We need to get our shit together rather than being walked over with every new rule and have our say.

Try them one their new FB page.

But would say anyone genuinely interested would be better aligning themselves with one of the ten 'member organisiations' to instigate any real change.

A lot of the current 'rules' that remove the flexibility we are actually trying to enhance in our vehicles, really gets up my nose.

You'd be in the same boat as me with an e30 and the independent rear end although yours probably has more camber from standard than the o.5 degree negative they come.

The whole system actually worked really well, take you vehicle to a certified and they would decide what was safe and within the level of certification from a practical inspector who has experience in the industry, most certifiers are respected members of the hot rod / old school racers brigade who no what works and what doesn't from experience.

The hot rod manual was written by modifiers with the input from safety inspectors / certifiers for modifiers it's an awesome tool for anyone building a car, the camber law is written by an office dweller smacking all these experienced guys in the face telling them it is no longer safe to run a little camber on the car.

Or I can have a Motorsport license and run whatever camber I want, then whoever may end up driving or buying your machine must have a Motorsport license to take it down the road to get the milk or groceries.

I just don't understand the logic

[siren676]

dont get me started on camber, standard mx5 alignment is set depending on ride height but the factory settings only go to
345mm hub-arch, kind of unfair that i have to use that setting when my cars at 285mm hub-arch



Lowest camber i can run is -2.25º at current height which is outside of tolerance although still considered alright for a fast road alignment by my wheel alignment guy.

[nzae86]

More importantly though how do get an opinion/say in these rules?
We need to get our shit together rather than being walked over with every new rule and have our say.

Try them one their new FB page.

But would say anyone genuinely interested would be better aligning themselves with one of the ten 'member organisiations' to instigate any real change.

A lot of the current 'rules' that remove the flexibility we are actually trying to enhance in our vehicles, really gets up my nose.

You'd be in the same boat as me with an e30 and the independent rear end although yours probably has more camber from standard than the o.5 degree negative they come.

The whole system actually worked really well, take you vehicle to a certified and they would decide what was safe and within the level of certification from a practical inspector who has experience in the industry, most certifiers are respected members of the hot rod / old school racers brigade who no what works and what doesn't from experience.

The hot rod manual was written by modifiers with the input from safety inspectors / certifiers for modifiers it's an awesome tool for anyone building a car, the camber law is written by an office dweller smacking all these experienced guys in the face telling them it is no longer safe to run a little camber on the car.

Or I can have a Motorsport license and run whatever camber I want, then whoever may end up driving or buying your machine must have a Motorsport license to take it down the road to get the milk or groceries.

I just don't understand the logic

The motorsport authority card does not cover suspension or adjustment of it , ie camber .

[metric]

Correct but from the standard

An LVV Certifier may however allow a (road-legal) legitimate motor-sport vehicle, owned by a bona fide motor-sport enthusiast, to exceed the limits provided in this LVVTA Information Sheet, on the basis of exclusion 3.1 of the LVV Suspension Systems Standard, as shown below.

“Low volume vehicles, which are primarily designed and used for LVVTA-recognised motor-sporting events, are not required to comply with 2.3(8).”

The LVV Certifier is required to sight and take a copy of the owner’s valid LVV Authority Card and provide this with the LVV certification application.

[metric]

Been reading more and more into this

Maybe i just need to approach a different certifier

In any case where a vehicle’s camber exceeds that recommended by the vehicle’s manufacturer, the LVV Certifier must ensure that the requirements contained in 2.2(2)(a), 2.3(8), and 2.4(1) (referred to earlier in this LVVTA Information Sheet) of the LVVTA suspension standard have been met.
The LVV Certifier must also take extra care in ensuring that the vehicle is safe and fit for purpose, based upon the following factors:
tyre width – the effects of added negative camber are more pronounced when wide, low-profile tyres are fitted; and
road and brake performance test results;
and the vehicle manufacturer’s wheel alignment specifications.


2.2(2)(a): “Steering mechanisms and their mountings, or any systems by which a driver controls the direction of a vehicle, must provide the vehicle with safe, efficient, convenient, and sensitive control.”

2.3(8): “Low volume vehicles which have undergone significant changes to the suspension system must feature no abnormal suspension geometry, and be aligned so as to provide satisfactory handling characteristics, and ensure against excessively shortened tyre life.”

2.4(1): “All modified production low volume vehicles with modified suspension systems must perform in a manner which preserves at least the quality of steering control which could be reasonably expected when the vehicle was originally manufactured.”

[metric]

Been reading more and more into this

Maybe i just need to approach a different certifier it would appear there is room to move at their discretion, that fact the car hasnt got massively oversize tyres / wheels would be in my favour.

In any case where a vehicle’s camber exceeds that recommended by the vehicle’s manufacturer, the LVV Certifier must ensure that the requirements contained in 2.2(2)(a), 2.3(8), and 2.4(1) (referred to earlier in this LVVTA Information Sheet) of the LVVTA suspension standard have been met.
The LVV Certifier must also take extra care in ensuring that the vehicle is safe and fit for purpose, based upon the following factors:
tyre width – the effects of added negative camber are more pronounced when wide, low-profile tyres are fitted; and
road and brake performance test results;
and the vehicle manufacturer’s wheel alignment specifications.


2.2(2)(a): “Steering mechanisms and their mountings, or any systems by which a driver controls the direction of a vehicle, must provide the vehicle with safe, efficient, convenient, and sensitive control.”

2.3(8): “Low volume vehicles which have undergone significant changes to the suspension system must feature no abnormal suspension geometry, and be aligned so as to provide satisfactory handling characteristics, and ensure against excessively shortened tyre life.”

2.4(1): “All modified production low volume vehicles with modified suspension systems must perform in a manner which preserves at least the quality of steering control which could be reasonably expected when the vehicle was originally manufactured.”

End of the day these guys that certify vehicles are normally practical people who know what works in the real world but they dont want to step outside these lines, It would appear reading the above as long as the car was bump steer tested and behaved correctly there wouldnt be an issue.

If only they had said 1.5 rear and 2.5 up I have enough adjustment in the rear to achieve that with a couple little mods

[michaelc]

More importantly though how do get an opinion/say in these rules?
We need to get our shit together rather than being walked over with every new rule and have our say.

Try them one their new FB page.

But would say anyone genuinely interested would be better aligning themselves with one of the ten 'member organisiations' to instigate any real change.

A lot of the current 'rules' that remove the flexibility we are actually trying to enhance in our vehicles, really gets up my nose.

None of the 10 member organisations represent Japanese car owners, It really seems like most of the changes they make these days are made in order for them to look like they are doing something useful while still keeping the stuff that is their own interests legal.

Massive blower sitting 2 foot out your bonnet? why not?
0.5deg extra camber, NO!

[wde_bdy]

Massive blower sitting 2 foot out your bonnet? why not?
0.5deg extra camber, NO!

Read the ACTUAL rules before whinging like a bitch, makes you look extremely uninformed.
Any bonnet protrusion has very specific requirements, there is no rule that says a Camaro has 5 inches more allowance than a Skyline.
If you think none of the current organisations represent your needs then get your own going and put the actual work (and $$$) into being represented. Or not, because I doubt you will.

Callum