DS2500 vs DS3000 vs something else brake pads?

[2jayzgte]

I thought the DS3000's were ok the only reason I got them as TRD Reds price wise have gone up to $370 for a set of fronts.

I have had issues with destroying front rotors but that is heat and biased related with the use of slicks and thats using Hawk HT-10's TRD Reds and the DS 3000's

I thought the 3000's were pretty good give good pedal feed back good initial bite and were pretty consistent after a few big stops.

I only used up about half of the front pads from new so they were about right compared with the above.

[2jayzgte]

Thanks

I was using the Mintex 1166 compound on my stock supra brakes a while back. They melted and destroyed themselves after a short period of time. I was running slicks though so that probably didn't help their life span haha.

I didn't find them too dusty or wear too much on the street - on the track though I must've overheated them.

I don't plan on doing long sessions at the track. The idea being I can take the car down to open track days and do a few laps at pace then come into the pits for an hour or so.

Can you get other pads? Like the Ferodo 2500's?

Those 1166s did exactly the same to me back in the day its the only time I've been in the tyres in the 70-80 track-days I've done over the years.

Honestly if your using factory rotors I'd use TRD Reds.

Cat get rid of that BS slider setup Cat thats the whole problem right there if you can get those Supra 4-pot fronts with the 323mm rotors its the best track upgrade outside of grip you'll ever do.

[cat007]

Those 1166s did exactly the same to me back in the day its the only time I've been in the tyres in the 70-80 track-days I've done over the years.

Honestly if your using factory rotors I'd use TRD Reds.

Cat get rid of that BS slider setup Cat thats the whole problem right there if you can get those Supra 4-pot fronts with the 323mm rotors its the best track upgrade outside of grip you'll ever do.

I have - I'm running Wilwood Superlite 4 pots with Ferodo 2500 pads and 350z rotors that are 330mm diameter, I forget if they're 30 or 32mm thick. Barry would know....

I WAS using 1166's with Motul RBF660 and the factory calipers and rotors when this happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyPrrEpFP1I

Around 40 seconds is when it all went pear shaped....hence why now I've upgraded. I'm just wondering if the 2500's are actually the best choice I could've made. I mean, I'm sure they'll work, for a while....
They are pretty squeaky when cold and at low speed.

[matt dunn]

I WAS using 1166's with Motul RBF660 and the factory calipers and rotors when this happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyPrrEpFP1I

Here's what happened to mine back before we upgraded the brakes.
It's right at the end of the video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-jPY724yus

Overheated brakes and worn too far = not good.

[cat007]

Holy shizz
That's what I was worried about when I entered the gravel sideways!

How was the car?

[touge_ae101]

yeah I've had terrible experience with mintex 1166's crumbling and disintegrating. Put it in the wall. it's the reason I went to the Wilwood caliper..

[2jayzgte]

Fluid I've boiled RBF 600 & 660 Ap Racing 2 different types.

I found the DS 3000's worked pretty good from cold if I'm honest but I did have a little issue with them locking the left front when cold but outside of that they were fine.

My problem now with using slicks I am just killing rotors that probably have done very limited Km's the OEM and TRD slotted's rotors aren't up to it.

I got a sneaking suspicion i'll have to run a bias controller to get the rear brakes working harder.

[2jayzgte]

Fluid I've boiled RBF 600 & 660 Ap Racing 2 different types.

I found the DS 3000's worked pretty good from cold if I'm honest but I did have a little issue with them locking the left front when cold but outside of that they were fine.

My problem now with using slicks I am just killing rotors that probably have done very limited Km's the OEM and TRD slotted's rotors aren't up to it.

I got a sneaking suspicion i'll have to run a bias controller to get the rear brakes working harder.

[Mr Ree]

I have never once destroyed a set of them. Im on my third set of the 1166 compound and have got nothing but good impressions from them.

But reading all of the above, 2 things are clear to me...

1) I dont push my brakes anywhere near as hard as I could, or as hard as all of you who have cooked them do. (I already know I leave a healthy margin under brakes, as Im not out to win anything, just having fun lapping at a nice pace)

2) That if the 1166 compound is kept within their operating temperature window, they wear extremely well, and operate very consistently.

I imagine with some decent ducting, I will be able to start using the brakes a little harder, without putting much extra heat into the system

[2jayzgte]

^^^^^^

Out of all the pads I've used and I over heat the lot there the only one that have completely fallen apart on me.

I mean I've had this issue for years and have used the best fluid possible and ducted also.

This only convinces me more that the brake bias is the real issue just to front orientated and the pad wear is another clear indicator the rear pads while being used are basically virgin compared to the use of the fronts.

Cat I'm not sure those Wilwood lights will be as good as the Supra 4-pots while they maybe lighter I got a sneaking suspicion the OEM items will take more of a pounding.

[Mr Ree]

I think Im just alot more sympathetic to my car that most people, and its brakes in particular.

I know my car isnt a competition car, and as such, its has limits to it, whether thats rev limits, tyre grip limits, brake heat limits etc etc

Keep them all in the sweet spot, and while you wont get the ultimate lap time, you will get more track time, and for far less money.

I seriously think you need to get a water pump set up for your brakes mate, and if that doesnt fix your constant overheating problems, then look at the bias controller. A pump, and some hardlines set up, with a switch to turn them on for X amount of seconds after every big stopping event, Im sure you will be golden, and no longer limited by your brake system.

[2jayzgte]

I think Im just alot more sympathetic to my car that most people, and its brakes in particular.

I know my car isnt a competition car, and as such, its has limits to it, whether thats rev limits, tyre grip limits, brake heat limits etc etc

Keep them all in the sweet spot, and while you wont get the ultimate lap time, you will get more track time, and for far less money.

I seriously think you need to get a water pump set up for your brakes mate, and if that doesnt fix your constant overheating problems, then look at the bias controller. A pump, and some hardlines set up, with a switch to turn them on for X amount of seconds after every big stopping event, Im sure you will be golden, and no longer limited by your brake system.

It still won't stop the issue though as I'll just keep pushing its like your giving me more rope to hang myself with hahahahaha..

I could also improve the rotor I use but I personally think again as stated above.If you have a look at the 60Cuba setup they run dual BMC's with ducting and have very few issue's with the factory rotors as they have dialed more rear end bias on and at 1500kg and 400+ KW car and they have the ability to run all day only suggests to me is what my guys who look after my car have been saying all along that using more rear brake and directing the bias to the back is probably the way foward.

Cat sorry for the slight thread Sabotage here but while not a pad issue definitely something you may run into the faster and faster you go.

[cat007]

What do the NZ V8 guys run? Their rotors aren't that huge? And their calipers don't appear to be either?

[Grrrrrrr!]

The V8SuperTourer uses a Brembo brake package that includes ventilated 380mm diameter 35mm thick rotors at the front and 355x32mm ventilated rotors at the rear. Both the front and rear rotors are fitted with Brembo's super-stiff "forged" billet alloy six-piston brake callipers in front and 4-piston callipers behind. This state-of-the-art brake package provides awesome stopping power the comparatively light car, which has an all up weight including driver of less than 1,300 kg.

and (2010) NZv8

The NZV8 control brake package was specially designed for the BNT NZV8 category and includes 4 piston monobloc front and rear calipers for superior stiffness. The front and rear disc rotors feature our patented Direct Drive V2 disc attachment system and patented slot pattern for more bite and less drag. Carbon Metallic® pads are at the centre of the system, providing the ultimate in bite, torque and release characteristics.

The biggest improvement is the increase in rotor sizes from 328mm to 355mm (front) and 310mm to 323mm (rear) using single piece monobloc four piston calipers on all four wheels. The same brake pad compound will be used front and rear with pad thicknesses increased to 29mm (front) and 19mm (rear).

[cat007]

The V8SuperTourer uses a Brembo brake package that includes ventilated 380mm diameter 35mm thick rotors at the front and 355x32mm ventilated rotors at the rear. Both the front and rear rotors are fitted with Brembo's super-stiff "forged" billet alloy six-piston brake callipers in front and 4-piston callipers behind. This state-of-the-art brake package provides awesome stopping power the comparatively light car, which has an all up weight including driver of less than 1,300 kg.

No, not the Supertourer's - the NZ V8's.

They have a ute class as well...

[Grrrrrrr!]

as above, was editting as you posted.

[Mr Ree]

I think Im just alot more sympathetic to my car that most people, and its brakes in particular.

I know my car isnt a competition car, and as such, its has limits to it, whether thats rev limits, tyre grip limits, brake heat limits etc etc

Keep them all in the sweet spot, and while you wont get the ultimate lap time, you will get more track time, and for far less money.

I seriously think you need to get a water pump set up for your brakes mate, and if that doesnt fix your constant overheating problems, then look at the bias controller. A pump, and some hardlines set up, with a switch to turn them on for X amount of seconds after every big stopping event, Im sure you will be golden, and no longer limited by your brake system.

It still won't stop the issue though as I'll just keep pushing its like your giving me more rope to hang myself with hahahahaha..

I could also improve the rotor I use but I personally think again as stated above.If you have a look at the 60Cuba setup they run dual BMC's with ducting and have very few issue's with the factory rotors as they have dialed more rear end bias on and at 1500kg and 400+ KW car and they have the ability to run all day only suggests to me is what my guys who look after my car have been saying all along that using more rear brake and directing the bias to the back is probably the way foward.

Cat sorry for the slight thread Sabotage here but while not a pad issue definitely something you may run into the faster and faster you go.

I have to disagree with you there, mate.

Water cooling is well proven to keep brake temps under control...whether in truck racing, V8 supercars etc. If your temps are stable, your rotors and pads will last massively longer, and your brake performance will be far more linear.

Personally, I like the bias of the brakes as they are, and feel that taken them much more towards the rear will destabilize the car under braking.

Have you discussed water cooling with Allister before during your brake cooling discussions? If so, what is his take on it?

[2jayzgte]

Wheen talking race cars yep it does work.

But I don't want to be the guinea pig no one else has done it as yet and its ground and $$$$$ I'm not prepared to spend.

I have spoken to Alistair about it he's hear nor there on it.He's the one that has been thrashing me for years about using a brake bias adjuster he looks at as common sense and believes for what I am doing its the best way foward in my case.Also reckons once dialed in he reckons at least a second a lap quicker.

[2jayzgte]

Wheen talking race cars yep it does work.

But I don't want to be the guinea pig no one else has done it as yet and its ground and $$$$$ I'm not prepared to spend.

How will a brake bias adjuster destabilize the car? If anything the car will sit flatter through the corner because of the lessend nose dive.

I have spoken to Alistair about it he's hear nor there on it.He's the one that has been thrashing me for years about using a brake bias adjuster he looks at as common sense and believes for what I am doing its the best way foward in my case.Also reckons once dialed in he reckons at least a second a lap quicker.

[Mr Ree]

I honestly think you could buy all the parts for the cost of a set of rotors and pads, and the outlay would pay itself off very fast.

Im going to start working out exactly what parts Im going to buy for my own setup, and will be sure to keep you up to date with how I get on.

Im fairly positive its a no brainer, just needs to be implemented well so its a set and forget application for worry free track day use...E.G Just fill up the water tank in the morning and then get into it