Supra vs. RX7

suped · Post by **suped** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:02 pm

I'd rather have a single turbo Supra.

Lith · Post by **Lith** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:48 pm

Nathan Young wrote:yeah will be a bit front heavy but i want reliable hp
and the lighter 7 makes good power to weight

and yeah my mate has a very heavy foot but still twice the fuel
and fuel cost about 98c L back then and i payed about $1.18 or
more was quite a while ago.

Unfortunately the reliability thing is what has scared me away from buying an RX just yet... this is the reason the poll states "money is no object" - to get an idea of what people think of just the cars. Makes the fuel thing not really related to the thread

Although RX7s are not good on gas, that gas definately sounds extreme. I have friends with turbo ported rotaries capable of that power level that are definately no way near that bad on gas.

Twolitre · Post by **Twolitre** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:20 am

In an old car mag of mine there was an FD RX7 with a 2JZGTE in it but had no bonnet for obvious reasons, I prefer the 20B in an MX-5 thoery

Nathan Young · Post by **Nathan Young** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:28 pm

yeah i know money not a problem but to me the time
the car spends off the road getting fixed is, thats why
i would want a reliable car.

supra

FLAWLES · Post by **FLAWLES** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:31 pm

Lith]

[quote="FLAWLES wrote:dont now of fery many " if any " 1200hp plus rx7

but in saying that

can i do a 50/50 vote

cause the 7s abillity to " be one of the best balanced cars ever made " stop and go around cnrs like shiit stuck to a blanket 2nd to none

but with a few good mods the supra can to

There are over 1000hp RX7s running around, admittedly most of them running 20Bs - but 13Bs can pull that as well. You are selectively missing major points though, the RX7 doesn't need 1200hp to match a 1200hp Supra in power/weight - and lower inertia means that the RX7 can use that weight that little bit better, having an advantage launching (drag) and changing direction (track). An RX7 was one of the first 6s imports, afterall...

Also, you say with a few good mods the Supra can do the going around corners like sh*t stuck to a blanket etc - thats to overcome a natural advantage the RX7 has, the RX7 can ALSO be modified to further improve its handling.... anything you can do to one, can also be done to the other.[/quote]

I DID SAY " WELL BALANCED " and true about the power to weight but it comes down to relieabilty " cant spell " i know off daylie driven 1200hp supras in the states how many daily driven rx7 do u here about? ha not many if any

but yes
power to weight tick rx7
reliabilty tick supra

each to there own

Lith · Post by **Lith** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:06 pm

There are also "not many, if any" daily driven 1200hp Supras in NZ.... there are 9s street driven rotaries in Oz though

9s on street tires, with full interior, on pump gas - running comfortably over 140mph trap speeds. They might not be 1200hp, but I'm sure the owners would be able to live with it as they leave a Supra in their dust.

Reliability is a pretty big issue, albeit greatly exaggerated by some people in here - but if I had the money I'd chose the risk of reliability issues for having what I consider to be a way cooler car.

evltoy · Post by **evltoy** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:33 pm

It doesnt matter how much you have to spend on your RX7, you'll soon get sick of not being able to drive it because its either out of tune again, or blown up again, or wont start again, its thrown the belts again, or its fouled the plugs again...I owned an RX7 for six months, and it was off the road for 3 of them. It was the biggest turd ive ever owned. Get a Supra, they can be thrashed all day long with the reliabilty of a blonde giving head on the first date.

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:39 pm

evltoy wrote:It doesnt matter how much you have to spend on your RX7, you'll soon get sick of not being able to drive it because its either out of tune again, or blown up again, or wont start again, its thrown the belts again, or its fouled the plugs again...I owned an RX7 for six months, and it was off the road for 3 of them. It was the biggest turd ive ever owned. Get a Supra, they can be thrashed all day long with the reliabilty of a blonde giving head on the first date.

Funny, I had mine for a year and a half without a single one of those problems you mentioned

Regular service is all it got.
Oh, the alternator, clutch and several sets of rear tyres died, but hey :lol:

Lith · Post by **Lith** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:06 am

evltoy wrote:It doesnt matter how much you have to spend on your RX7, you'll soon get sick of not being able to drive it because its either out of tune again, or blown up again, or wont start again, its thrown the belts again, or its fouled the plugs again...I owned an RX7 for six months, and it was off the road for 3 of them. It was the biggest turd ive ever owned. Get a Supra, they can be thrashed all day long with the reliabilty of a blonde giving head on the first date.

That sounds like that kind of experience you'd get with a lot of poorly maintained performance cars.... most of those aren't rotary specific problems.

Also comparing a carby one (hence you refer to it going out of tune etc) means you are comparing a modern Supra with an old Mazda which is going to have been sustaining years of use anyway - this is twin-turbo RX7 vs. twin turbo Supra.

Most of my friends with rotaries have had no way near the problems with their rotaries as this thread suggests you'd have... and some of them are far from stock. One guy has one which was in the first NZPC Yearbook (2000 I think?), and was described as being quite a beast in there - 5 years down the line the only thing which has needed a fresh up in the engine bay is the turbo which developed dodgey seals and the twin-plate clutch other than normal maintainance.

Grease monky · Post by **Grease monky** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:23 am

That sounds like that kind of experience you'd get with a lot of poorly maintained performance cars.... most of those aren't rotary specific problems.

Now your making up excuses about a car you know nothing about.

They sound like Rotary specific problems to me as they stem from the fact an engine that revs to 7 grand factory now revs to 10grand, and everything atached to the motor and driveline is put under that much more stress. When you start driving the car hard all this adds up and the things just cant take it.

There a design faults with wankels that will never be overcome to provide high Hp with reliabilty. The seals are prone to fail without any warning, the engines twist themselves under excess load, and they run high temps, which all add to an unreliable nature.

Im only speaking from real life experiences, not what Ive read in magazines or chin wagged and fantisied about with my young friends on a Friday night.

I have friends that own and have owned highly modified rotaries also, turboed and Naturally asspirated alike. And a common conclusion from them all is that a highly modified turbo rotor is good for about 60,000KM's if your lucky.

You'll never convince a rotory enthusiast, as they all seem to hold the rotary engine as the great giant killer, but these individuals are usually young guys with old wrecks with chopped springs and big truck mufflers sticking out the rear end of their wrecks.

They are noisy over rated pieces of junk.

Grease monky · Post by **Grease monky** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:26 am

twin-turbo RX7

Ring up any Rotary workshop and ask them how many Series 6 engines are in their shop waiting to be rebuilt. How many do you see for sale with rebuilt engine at xxxx ammount of Km's.

CozmoNz · Post by **CozmoNz** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:48 am

sell the rx7, buy a mr2 gts.... sink the cash into an mr2... run 10's

theres a reason why there arnt as many old rotors as their used to be

, and the 82 rona still lives on! muwahahaha

every mechanic ive asked about rotors... before i could even ask the question, up until the point i say *rotor*... they listen in.... when i say that word....

all you can hear is cursing, *PEICES OF SHIT, HORRID THINGS, BLOW THEM ALL UP* etc.

every mechanic..... and i havnt only talked to one...

why do they all hate them then

V8MOFO · Post by **V8MOFO** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:25 pm

rx7, because my rx7 off need for speed is the shizzel

FLAWLES · Post by **FLAWLES** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:12 pm

Lith wrote:There are also "not many, if any" daily driven 1200hp Supras in NZ.... there are 9s street driven rotaries in Oz though 9s on street tires, with full interior, on pump gas - running comfortably over 140mph trap speeds. They might not be 1200hp, but I'm sure the owners would be able to live with it as they leave a Supra in their dust.

Reliability is a pretty big issue, albeit greatly exaggerated by some people in here - but if I had the money I'd chose the risk of reliability issues for having what I consider to be a way cooler car.

i dont knw of any 1200hp supras in NZ nor do i no of any above 600hp rotangs " street legal " in NZ

but az for drag racing im dam sure the supra was the first full chassis car " import " to break into the 7s or 8s

please feel free to correct me

but :roll:

once again i will say each to there own :wink:

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:05 pm

Grease monky wrote:
That sounds like that kind of experience you'd get with a lot of poorly maintained performance cars.... most of those aren't rotary specific problems.

Now your making up excuses about a car you know nothing about.

They sound like Rotary specific problems to me as they stem from the fact an engine that revs to 7 grand factory now revs to 10grand, and everything atached to the motor and driveline is put under that much more stress. When you start driving the car hard all this adds up and the things just cant take it.

There a design faults with wankels that will never be overcome to provide high Hp with reliabilty. The seals are prone to fail without any warning, the engines twist themselves under excess load, and they run high temps, which all add to an unreliable nature.

Im only speaking from real life experiences, not what Ive read in magazines or chin wagged and fantisied about with my young friends on a Friday night.

I have friends that own and have owned highly modified rotaries also, turboed and Naturally asspirated alike. And a common conclusion from them all is that a highly modified turbo rotor is good for about 60,000KM's if your lucky.

You'll never convince a rotory enthusiast, as they all seem to hold the rotary engine as the great giant killer, but these individuals are usually young guys with old wrecks with chopped springs and big truck mufflers sticking out the rear end of their wrecks.

They are noisy over rated pieces of junk.

Spoken like a true one eyed "enthusiast"

If you build a proper high revving engine (and fuelling dependant) they dont need to pull 10 grand, PP's seem to make peak power (and this is again dependant on port shape among other things) around about 8500 -9000rpm range. Also built properly, underdriven pulleys can help with waterpump cavitation as well as belt throwing.

Seals fail without warning? Well, if you can ignore the hard starting, clouds of smoke, low compression and detonation, then yes they do go without warning :roll:

Twist under load? yep, and so do con rods.

As for highly modified turbo rotaries making 60,000k's....how long do highly stressed piston motors last?

Sure, rotaries can be unreliable, but so can any high performance engine that isnt maintained and thrashed.

I dont hold the rotary as the be all and end all, but I can respect the fact they make great power from such a compact unit.

pervert · Post by **pervert** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:21 pm

Its a syndrome people have.

Anything thats not the same as everything else should be mocked.

Rotaries are cool, they are different, and that in itself makes them cool. The sound is cool, and they have such tasty old school rotors, that are pulling good money these days.

Any rare car, no matter how reliable, is usually a cool car.

Lith · Post by **Lith** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:48 pm

Grease monky wrote:
That sounds like that kind of experience you'd get with a lot of poorly maintained performance cars.... most of those aren't rotary specific problems.

Now your making up excuses about a car you know nothing about.

STFU. You don't know who the hell I am or what I know. I am just as warrented to say you shouldn't be criticising something you know nothing about.

Grease monky wrote:
They sound like Rotary specific problems to me as they stem from the fact an engine that revs to 7grand factory now revs to 10grand, and everything atached to the motor and driveline is put under that much more stress. When you start driving the car hard all this adds up and the things just cant take it.

Ahh ok, so if I got a 2JZGTE and revved it to 10,000rpm it'll be sweet as and reliable? I never said a rotary was equally reliable, you can see that at several points in this thread. I did say that people are exaggerating how bad they are and stand by that. The things you are describing are things that people who don't care how long it would last would do to a rotary.

With some care and thought a rotary can make good power for a reasonable amount of time, though (as I've said before) they won't be as reliable as a 2JZ which is why I don't own one.

Lith · Post by **Lith** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:52 pm

FLAWLES wrote:i dont knw of any 1200hp supras in NZ nor do i no of any above 600hp rotangs " street legal " in NZ

but az for drag racing im dam sure the supra was the first full chassis car " import " to break into the 7s or 8s

please feel free to correct me

but once again i will say each to there own

There are 600hp+ street driven rotaries in NZ... DEFINATELY registered.

If I remember rightly, FOURRE is street registered and warrented and has had a new exhaust made up to not be so insanely loud - thats over 600hp NA

Twolitre · Post by **Twolitre** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:29 pm

Lith,
Was the point of this thread to gather opinions on each car in regards to you making a decision on which one you would be looking at purchasing in the near future? Or merely because you knew it would spark controversy?
It seems to me that you are a little bias in favour of the rotary and if so you should disregard what other people think, go with what you want and be happy with it, I'm sure if you bought a Supra there might be a little part of you that might regret it.

Lith · Post by **Lith** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:42 pm

Twolitre wrote:Lith,
Was the point of this thread to gather opinions on each car in regards to you making a decision on which one you would be looking at purchasing in the near future? Or merely because you knew it would spark controversy?
It seems to me that you are a little bias in favours of the rotary and if so you should disregard what other people think, go with what you want and be happy with it, I'm sure if you bought a Supra there might be a little part of you that might regret it.

I did it because I was interested, because I have considered this kind of thing before and came to the conclusion that I'd probably get a Supra if it was a purely clinical decision, and an RX7 if it was a purely passion based decision. I thought it'd be interesting to see what other people said, so I guess it was basically to spark controversy - which I'm not above

If you pay attention to what I have said anywhere here, I've not talked the Supra down ANYWHERE... the only thing I've ever said the RX7 has over the Supra is handling, and I've definately given the Supra the practicality/reliability advantage. I never said the RX7 was faster or better.... I've spoken up whenever people are exaggerating how bad the RX7s are. Whats biased about that?

Toyspeed

Supra vs. RX7

Twin Turbo RX7 or Supra?