EP70/71 Starlet Engine Options

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:41 pm

I've just obtained a $200 FWD starlet (1988 EP70?) with a 1e/2e (Not to sure on exactly what displacement it is, or the engine (1e/2e) - It's got no stamp on the chassis)

I've replaced the lovely "move across the road when it's windy and wet" 155's with 195's - which has made a world of difference... Combining that with a slight lowering, compressing the springs a few mm..

Now, as nice as this engine is - It struggles to keep up with traffic at the best of times. 4 speed is a bitch too. I'm after engine swaps that are as near to direct fitment as possible, ie.. No custom made mounts etc.. Just a mix and match of parts to make a bit more power.. I don't mind spending a wee bit of money to make the thing more bearable.

I'd like to extract the knowledge from your brains on what engines fit - which fit easily, which are worth fitting. I understand these come out in turbo, but finding a turbo one which has had a smash in the ass end seems like a bit of a mission.

Also, Where would the factory pick up for a turbo oil line feed be on this engine..... (obviously on the turbo model..)

Adydas · Post by **Adydas** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:57 pm

any e class engine, i guess the first and most ovious suggestion would be a 4efte, 1300 turbo from the 1991 aged starlet, failing that there might be a 1500cc engine that i think fits but id certainly check it out.

Either way i belive the 4efe or 4efte would be the best and most easiest bet.

flygt4 · Post by **flygt4** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:18 pm

cynos have an e series engine that is larger displacement.

summin · Post by **summin** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:55 pm

Sounds like 1e to me, dont think the 2e ever came with a 4 speed box (could be wrong though...)

A few options, depending if you can be bothered going efi or not. Easiest is prolly 2e swap (pretty much a straight swap, but not an awful lot of point)

Other options include:
2e-e (1300cc 12v EFI)
2e-t (same as above, 12 valve turbo. Getting hard to find in decent cond)
4e-fe (1300cc, 16v EFI)
4e-fte (1300cc, 16v Turbo - Out of GT starlet or Glanza)
5e-fe (1500cc EFI, out of cynos)
5e-fhe (similar to above but with twin intake runner setup)

Most of those are pretty straight forward bolt-ons, just need to swap mounts. Some other parts will also be needed to be swapped/changed depending on what brakes etc you're running.

Easy enough to change to efi, just need to source an efi tank and lines from either a Turbo S of Si starlet. Also will need to fiddle around with wiring etc if going efi/turbo.

Check out www.starletcentral.co.nz or the profiles section http://forums.starletcentral.co.nz/view ... ac12e4470f , lots of good advice from people who have done pretty much any of the above

DexGT · Post by **DexGT** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:36 pm

4E-FE will bolt straight in using the mounts off the current motor , I did this to a mates EP71 though it was easier due to his being injected , but after we put extractors and exhaust on it , it was respectively quick , not turbo quick but you can put the 4E-FTE in too if you want more speed :wink:

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:25 am

Will most likely go for a 4e-fte when I can find one for a reasonable price. Will get a hold of a EFI fuel tank aswell... Cheers for your replies so far.

Do any of the suspension componants of the GT Turbo direct mount onto the EP70? Same wheel stud patterns etc..

summin · Post by **summin** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:51 pm

Surge wrote:Will most likely go for a 4e-fte when I can find one for a reasonable price. Will get a hold of a EFI fuel tank aswell... Cheers for your replies so far.

Do any of the suspension componants of the GT Turbo direct mount onto the EP70? Same wheel stud patterns etc..

Ummm struts will fit, just need to use the ep70 tophats, rear is a direct fit.

If you want bigger brakes just swap the complete front hubs from ep82 gt over, also need to swap gt driveshafts.

You can use standard driveshafts make sure you swap the inner cv cups on the standard gearbox over to the GT box, or else the shafts will rattle around.

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:42 pm

Alrighty...

I've brought a Starlet GT turbo...

I'm going to be swapping the motor in over next week, should make the EP70 go alright!

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:08 am

A couple more questions..

Converting to EFI, what exactly is the difference between the EFI tank the and non-EFI?

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:45 am

fuel pump and fuel lines.

see if you can get a SI tank

Stu- · Post by **Stu-** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:02 pm

The're pretty rare these days. Almost worth just making up a surge tank setup or modifying the stock tank these days. Slot for the pump is there, just no internal baffles.

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:13 pm

ok, if the fitting is there it wont be too hard to sort a 2nd hand pump etc and fit that, thats what id look at for a road car.
if you cbf with a surge tank that is.

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:23 pm

Is the pump submerged or inline on the carbed tank? Which extra lines need to be put in? I'm assuming there is feed and return as per standard, would there be any harm in using the pump off the EP82 retrofitted to the EP70?

I've got a whole GT starlet to get bits off mechanically.. Oh and a few BMW pumps..

Stu- · Post by **Stu-** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:34 pm

The pumps are in the tank for a standard injected setup and on the side of the head driven by the cam for carby ones. You could run an external VL style pump but you'd want to make sure you never run under say 1/4 tank if your going around corners with no internal baffles in the tank - fine for a na carby but no good for EFI turbo.

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:44 am

Stu- wrote:The pumps are in the tank for a standard injected setup and on the side of the head driven by the cam for carby ones. You could run an external VL style pump but you'd want to make sure you never run under say 1/4 tank if your going around corners with no internal baffles in the tank - fine for a na carby but no good for EFI turbo.

How well would the standard lines (ones from tank to motor - are they steel or rubber?) take an external low-pressure pump (which sort of pump would I be looking at here?) at the base of the fuel tank.. onto a surge tank in the engine bay, then onto a high pressure pump before the regulator?

The surge tank should eliminate any fueling issues correct?

Stu- · Post by **Stu-** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:22 pm

The lines are mostly steel except for a short section of rubber at each end - and they would handle high pressure psi without an issue. You could have a facet style pump lifting to the surge tank then a high pressure pump into the fuel rail.

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:16 pm

Cheers again Stu.

I have the two engines out of the cars now, for reference sake the 1e took about half an hour to remove!

Am now just working out the exact details of the wiring.. quite a step up from carb to EFI.

With the wiring, how have you gone about it from your swaps? I've been thinking over a few options...
The most likely, and best way I can think of is to shed as much EP82 unneeded wiring as possible from the dash loom, splice into the EP70 loom (ignition, tach, etc...)

Am I best off using the Ep82 fusebox to match the engine? Or splice the EP82 loom before the dash.. I've noticed there is quite a few relays that are essential for EFI under the dash.

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:56 pm

hope your taking lots of photos and notes for the project section

Stu- · Post by **Stu-** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:16 am

Don't need any of those relays. Strip back the Ep82 loom, lay over the EP71 and just join up the relevant powers etc.

Surge · Post by **Surge** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:42 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:hope your taking lots of photos and notes for the project section

Yeah will get some as I go along!

Stu- wrote:Don't need any of those relays. Strip back the Ep82 loom, lay over the EP71 and just join up the relevant powers etc.

I'm just concerned as to which parts of the loom I can strip, I'd rather do it myself and then I'll be able to tackle any other looms in the future... So just need some guidance.

I'm following the wires from the computer (ep82 computer) and a lot of them go back to various 'needed' relays (such as the previously mentioned fuel relay) - will the computer still operate the engine fine with fueling relays removed? or does the 16 pin (smaller) plug just feature more 'optional' components with the 02 sensor, knock etc being controlled by the larger plug?

Also, the EP82 engine loom - Is it worth stripping it back (removing the covers, etc....) then mating the starter + altenator etc.. with the 1e engine harness?

Sorry for all the questions!